Elk Arrow Setup: How Slow is TOO Slow?

[Michael]

This may be a little long as a think this through "out loud" to myself...

Jeff and the fine folks at CCR recently built me a few heavier arrows to test for my backcountry elk setup in September. I've been shooting them for a couple of weeks (for form purposes). My setup is as follows:

Mathews HTR w/ 70# limbs
29" draw
29" arrows

Arrow build:
Goldtip Pierce 300 cut to 29".
65gr weight added to outsert
4 fletch vanes
125gr tip
Total arrow weight 528gr (with 125gr tip)

Casey had an extra Trophy Ridge React Pro sight (long story) that he gave me over the weekend to test. I knew the setup was slow, but I realized it might be TOO slow when I was unable to set the React sight beyond 20 yards because the pin gap is too wide to accommodate the longest pin (60) without bottoming out on the housing!

Today I ran over to Brush to Bay Outfitters to do some tuning and testing. I did a little bit of paper tuning and then decided to run the arrow through the chrono (probably should have done that first).

My first shot registered 293. I knew that was a misread because there's no way this setup is capable of that. I shot again and registered 238, which I equaled with a couple more shots. I replaced the 125 tip with a 100 grain tip and shot 242, 242 and 243. I ran my old arrow (Beman ICS Hunter with 125 tip - 336gr total weight) through and got 266 fps.

I decided to check draw weight and am getting 65# on the B2B scale. I figured it would be much higher than that. Axle-axle is about 3/8" long, so maybe a little string stretch on the factory set. Timing indicators are right on.

I figure my options are as follows:

1. Put my Spott Hogg back on, change to 100 grain heads to drop arrow weight to 503 gr and live with the wide pin gap at 243ish fps.

2. Add twist to string to increase draw weight, hopefully to 70# and retest each setup.

3. Purchase a new string and replace factory string (which could be used as an emergency backup) and retest.

3. Go back to original setup (436 gr ICS Hunter 340 at 266 fps). I thought about adding weighted insert or heavier head to that setup, but fear a fresh or twisted string that brings me >70# might result in weak spine from 340s.


Not that I'm stuck with running the React sight, but I believe minimum for it to work properly is 250 fps. I feel like that's the minimum of where I need to be, and I originally wanted to be around the 260 range.

Anyway, I think I have a good idea of what I want to do (after discussing with both Jeff and Tim and writing it all out here) but feel free to offer up opinions or advice (if you made it this far! )

[hopedale]

Way more thought in this then I would have done. I'm shooting 100gr field tips and broadheads, and debate in my mind is should I go up to 125 when I can go after an elk.

In my mind there have been plenty of deer taken with long bows. What speed and weight were those old bows flinging by Jim Doegherty and Fred Bear?

I haven't a clue.

I know you're looking for some help with this one, but for me, I'm going to focus on shot placement.

But like you, I'd like to hear from some other folks that get into the science of all this, as well as, those that have been flinging the arrows at elk.

[The Insurance Guy]

I just took mine to on target in Canton and had them run through my bow. My bow is at 76#, 30” draw, 475 grain arrow shooting 276 FPS. Im happy with that but need to test it outside with Broadheads on. It has been so dang windy at my house I cant trust what’s going on.

[meltingfeather]

Interesting... I'm in for any info.
Headed to Chama in September and my outfitter's recommendation was >425 gr.
My 28-1/2" Easton FMJs tipped with 100 gr. Kudu points tipped the scale at 432 gr.
I'm pulling 60 lbs. to 28-1/2" draw and haven't chrono'ed the set-up, but had to use almost the widest spread tape (No. 11) on my CBE TEK-Hybrid Pro to get it dialed.
Been out to 70 yards so far with great results.
If everything else is working I'd consider bagging the sight in favor of something that will work with your set-up. You could also set the sight at 5-yard increments.
It's getting to be time where I'd start getting nervous about major set-up changes... September will be here before you know it!

[curtintex]

I've experimented with Grizzly Stix 650gr set up. I loved the SMACK, but the lack of speed freaked me out a little. I never chrono checked it, but I felt like I could outrun the arrow. I ran into some of the same issues with my sight as you did. I don't think your 238fps is that bad, considering that we were all shooting that speed 25 years ago, but it is just weird to see the difference in flight. I ultimately decided to go back to my original setup, which is about 450ish, as it was proven and trusted. I still tinker with the heavy arrows, but I've yet to hunt with the setup.

I will say for backcountry elk, I don't think that lack of speed is going to make a big difference. The kinetic energy that those heavier setups bring would serve you well when driving it through an elk.

Whichever way you decide to go with your setup, let us know. If you figure it out and have the confidence to hunt with it....well, I probably could too.

[DapperDan]

Elk Arrow Setup: How Slow is TOO Slow?

Those original arrows would have blown through an elk at 50 with the right Broadhead.
However, do you anticipate shooting at an elk past 50 yards? If you’re calling, odds are you’ll be in timber and may only be able to see 20 yards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[agwrestler]

I'm not sure how slow is too slow, but moving the sight closer to your eye/riser will narrow the pin gaps.

[rocky]

This may be a little long as a think this through "out loud" to myself...

Jeff and the fine folks at CCR recently built me a few heavier arrows to test for my backcountry elk setup in September. I've been shooting them for a couple of weeks (for form purposes). My setup is as follows:

Mathews HTR w/ 70# limbs
29" draw
29" arrows

Arrow build:
Goldtip Pierce 300 cut to 29".
65gr weight added to outsert
4 fletch vanes
125gr tip
Total arrow weight 528gr (with 125gr tip)

Casey had an extra Trophy Ridge React Pro sight (long story) that he gave me over the weekend to test. I knew the setup was slow, but I realized it might be TOO slow when I was unable to set the React sight beyond 20 yards because the pin gap is too wide to accommodate the longest pin (60) without bottoming out on the housing!

Today I ran over to Brush to Bay Outfitters to do some tuning and testing. I did a little bit of paper tuning and then decided to run the arrow through the chrono (probably should have done that first).

My first shot registered 293. I knew that was a misread because there's no way this setup is capable of that. I shot again and registered 238, which I equaled with a couple more shots. I replaced the 125 tip with a 100 grain tip and shot 242, 242 and 243. I ran my old arrow (Beman ICS Hunter with 125 tip - 336gr total weight) through and got 266 fps.

I decided to check draw weight and am getting 65# on the B2B scale. I figured it would be much higher than that. Axle-axle is about 3/8" long, so maybe a little string stretch on the factory set. Timing indicators are right on.

I figure my options are as follows:

1. Put my Spott Hogg back on, change to 100 grain heads to drop arrow weight to 503 gr and live with the wide pin gap at 243ish fps.

2. Add twist to string to increase draw weight, hopefully to 70# and retest each setup.

3. Purchase a new string and replace factory string (which could be used as an emergency backup) and retest.

3. Go back to original setup (436 gr ICS Hunter 340 at 266 fps). I thought about adding weighted insert or heavier head to that setup, but fear a fresh or twisted string that brings me >70# might result in weak spine from 340s.


Not that I'm stuck with running the React sight, but I believe minimum for it to work properly is 250 fps. I feel like that's the minimum of where I need to be, and I originally wanted to be around the 260 range.

Anyway, I think I have a good idea of what I want to do (after discussing with both Jeff and Tim and writing it all out here) but feel free to offer up opinions or advice (if you made it this far! )

This post informs me that your shop of choice is not checking things as you Persue your goal to a good elk setup. Your bow should be checked for spec every time you go in there. 3/8 of an inch long is not acceptable when you are choosing arrows for correct spine and hunting performance. You are the only one that can decide what is correct for speed, but your shop is responsible for keeping your bow in spec so that you can
Make that decision.

[Bradical BH]

Not sure I completely understand if your outserts weigh 65 gr or you added a weight? It sounds like you added a weight. If that's the case I think you loose the 65gr weight keep the 125 BH. Puts you at a 463 total weight. Since your bow is only pulling #65 I would lean towards this lighter set up which is really still on the heavy side anyways. 460 grains at 250-255 dps will give you 65lbs of KE. More than suitable for elk. Then you will also be able to have a reasonable pin gap since you'll likely be taking a shot over 20 yds. I think the problem is too much weight up front resulting in the nose dive effect. Just my two cents. I've played around with mine for quite a while. Good luck!! Btw one my biggest problems with the same arrow set up is it blowing through targets because the heavy KE.

[Fishndude]

This post informs me that your shop of choice is not checking things as you Persue your goal to a good elk setup. Your bow should be checked for spec every time you go in there. 3/8 of an inch long is not acceptable when you are choosing arrows for correct spine and hunting performance. You are the only one that can decide what is correct for speed, but your shop is responsible for keeping your bow in spec so that you can
Make that decision.

His “shop of choice” did what he asked on our end and without the bow at our disposal.

[SaltwaterSlick]

Michael, my first elk with a bow was with a recurve shooting a 650 gr. snuffer tipped Gold Tip 100 topping out at 212 fps. The dang arrow didn't even change trajectory as it zipped through the elk's ribcage and stuck in a stick on the ground 15 yards on the other side of the elk. I learned when skinning/processing, it slipped between the ribs going in, but centerpunched on exiting... Elk ran about 15 yards and piled up in a heap... Speed is not what kills. Accurate shooting is what kills. If you can shoot your bow accurately out to your maximum comfortable range whatever that is, don't worry about speed.

[rocky]

.His “shop of choice” did what he asked

I’m not being a smartass, just telling him what I would do if he came in my shop.

[rocky]

His “shop of choice” did what he asked on our end and without the bow at our disposal.

Nice quick edit

[glen]

I aways just shoot same arrows at everything

[Fishndude]

Nice quick edit

Hey, i figured you weren’t being a smart ***.

I had him at 254 @ 70 lbs