How safe is a safe?

[Plain Lucky]

some good info on this thread!

Yes sir!

[TX35GTR]

I've seen a lot of ruined guns inside a safe after a house fire.
If you want them to protect against fire you probably better put it somewhere that ain't going to burn

Ive heard this from a few fireman, one had been in the business for 30+ years and had never seen any survive to that point. Thats why I never got too hung up on the fire rating when I bought mine.

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[RJK70]

Ive heard this from a few fireman, one had been in the business for 30+ years and had never seen any survive to that point. Thats why I never got too hung up on the fire rating when I bought mine.

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Same as what I have heard. A buddy used to work claims for farm bureau and worked a ton of fire cases involving safes. Said even if the heat doesn’t ruin them the smoke gets in and really damages the guns.


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[dphillips62]

When the wet heat from a structure fire at a high enough temperature is applied to metal it will immediately start rusting. It's almost like the moisture penetrates the microscopic pours opened up by the heat. Paint will never stick to it, oil and or grease won't stop the rust. I investigated a minor kitchen fire once, oil on the stove caught fire burned the cabinets and got into the attic, firemen put the fire out a couple of minuets after they arrived on scene. Anyway I took the home owner on a damage tour and he wanted to check out his safe. He opened it and just about every gun already had started to rust (safe was all the way in the back of the house) it was a good high quality safe also.

[kumathebear]

As someone who has a pretty large amount of experience dealing with burglars and burglary investigations, I can confidently say that this would be an extremely rare type of occurrence.

It's been my experience that if your safe is large enough that it can't be just picked up and carried out, then it won't get touched in the vast majority of cases. Any safe can be defeated with enough time and a few tools.

All of the residential safes I've personally seen defeated were defeated by someone the victim knew and the suspect knew the victim would not be home any time soon. The vast majority of residential burglaries happen in less than 5 minutes. I used to conduct surveillance on burglary suspects and have watched many burglars break into houses. Only a handful of times were the burglars inside the house for more than 5 minutes. The longest I ever had a burglar in a house was for 45 minutes. That was an extremely long time. The 2nd longest was maybe 10 minutes at most. Most burglars want stuff they can grab and get out. A safe, especially one large enough that it can't be just picked up and carried out, will save you valuables from theft in a burglary. My safe weighs over 940 lbs empty. It's not bolted down. But, it's also in a spot in my house that would be impossible to get to and remove it without destroying an exterior wall and then destroying multiple interior walls just to get to it. The only reasonable option would be to defeat the safe on sight. It is possible, but is extremely unlikely as most burglars don't want to spend that much time inside the target residence. There's just to high of a likelihood of getting caught. They can hit several houses in a day and there is never a shortage of valuables that are easily grabbed and made off with.

Thank you! The voice of reason and experience. Merry Christmas...

[Radar]

I have met two people that had their safes messed with. The first was a break in and the fools beat the safe lock and handles off with a sledge hammer and left. They did not bust it open.

The second one , they broke in and could not open safe. Got mad and turned the safe over and it fell through the floor. Really messed up some fine rifles.

[Pullersboy]

Thank you! The voice of reason and experience. Merry Christmas...

You bet. Merry Christmas to you too, Sir.

[keng]

a story about guns rusting in a fire. I had a cheap safe in my basement when my house caught fire. The fire was above and behind the safe. smoke got in the safe but not much heat, the nylon straps on the scope covers weren't even hurt. I took my guns to my mom's house to store, all appeared fine. Three days later, I looked at them and they were all starting to rust. Most needed re-blued

[double bogey]

You have to think about the whole picture. If your home is isolated, without a monitored security system, You need a very good safe. See puller boy's posts above. If you are a typical gun owner, and don't have anything that a real professional is going to be interested in, get a decent quality residential security container (gun safe), and place it where they cannot get any pry bar leverage on the door, or access the sides with grinders, bolt it down, and feel reasonably secure. Get twice the capacity you think you need. Also get the combination lock. Seems like sooner or later the electronic ones fail. And if you have very expensive valuables, don't leave them at home, use a bank safety deposit box. Buy specific gun loss insurance, as most homeowner insurance doesn't have a lot of coverage.

I am not a cop, investigator, or criminal, I just studied this several years ago before getting a rsc to get my guns out of several closets, and corners behind room doors. Heck, I even lost a nylon 66 I was sure got stolen, finally found it buried behind some stuff in a spare room when I remodeled it. Good luck with whatever safe you get.

[cattlelackranch]

Another good suggestion for a lock is a SecuRam. It's an EMP redundant lock. It has an electronic keypad for everyday use but also has a traditional mechanical spin dial as a backup.

[ezypikns]

I Have a good heavy safe bolted down inside my house.

What kind of concerns me is knowing that even if they can't get into the safe, they DO know then that I have a safe, and they might be back when I'm home.

Of course I'm generally ready for that eventuality.

[RJK70]

You have to think about the whole picture. If your home is isolated, without a monitored security system, You need a very good safe. See puller boy's posts above. If you are a typical gun owner, and don't have anything that a real professional is going to be interested in, get a decent quality residential security container (gun safe), and place it where they cannot get any pry bar leverage on the door, or access the sides with grinders, bolt it down, and feel reasonably secure. Get twice the capacity you think you need. Also get the combination lock. Seems like sooner or later the electronic ones fail. And if you have very expensive valuables, don't leave them at home, use a bank safety deposit box. Buy specific gun loss insurance, as most homeowner insurance doesn't have a lot of coverage.



I am not a cop, investigator, or criminal, I just studied this several years ago before getting a rsc to get my guns out of several closets, and corners behind room doors. Heck, I even lost a nylon 66 I was sure got stolen, finally found it buried behind some stuff in a spare room when I remodeled it. Good luck with whatever safe you get.

Great point on the insurance specifically for guns. My Home and contents are insured for a ton but the limit on the guns is minimal. I even looked at adding $25,000 additional just for guns to the Home policy but it basically only covers them in a house fire. If they are stolen, lost or damaged they again are only minimally covered. I have added fire arms under a specific schedule and they are covered by themselves on their own deductible. Now covered for theft, loss, damage, etc...

Don’t assume you are covered by your Home policy because you are not if you have more
Than a few guns.


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[Plain Lucky]

Agree on insurance comments above but what about when the gov't comes to take our guns and they realize they can check with insurance providers to get a list of what you own?

[double bogey]

They wont need to check with the insurance company. If you have bought one firearm in the last 20 years and filled out a 4473 form, they are coming.