Recovered Bullets

[okrattler]

I have a few pellets (#4 shot) that my uncle pulled out of his face with a powerful magnet after getting shot while pheasant huntin.

I used to have a Hornady 52gr. BTHP I got out of a raccoon I shot but I don't know what happened to it. I need to post a picture of that Hog Hammer bullet. Most of those didn't stay inside of any hogs me and my buddies shot with them. They do open up but they'll punch right through some good sized hogs surprisingly. The only reason that one didn't is it hit a pig at a weird angle behind the left shoulder and ended up in its right hip just under the skin.

That's pretty much the only way I've ever recovered any bullets. There have been several times I was skinning something and heard a bullet hit the concrete floor or saw copper stuck in some meat.

[Texas Grown]

I used to save shotgun slugs and fragments. Don't know if I've still got any left.

The fish are biting, and there's hogs to be kilt. Gotta go!

[tbeak]

I've always wanted to but have never had it happen. Guess that's a good thing too

[tbeak]

Physics dictates that if it exits it has not expended all its energy in the animal....just saying.

Interesting thought. I can understand this but also it hasn't created the maximum amount of damage?
By going all the way through it's creating the shockwave effect, causing internals to rupture. By using all its energy does less "impact" occur?

These are questions for debate not statements

[2014FusionM]

Recovered one from a buddies pig he shot with a 270. Wish we would have kept it though would have been cool.

[Outbreaker]

Interesting thought. I can understand this but also it hasn't created the maximum amount of damage?
By going all the way through it's creating the shockwave effect, causing internals to rupture. By using all its energy does less "impact" occur?

These are questions for debate not statements

I am a physics teacher I love mind experiments.

You are thinking of fluid dynamics and that the turbulence that the bullet causes as it moves through.

You are also thinking of the temporary cavity caused in ballistics gelatin.

That cavity is caused because the said bullet starts to expand......therefore expending energy and transferring the spent energy into the gelatin.

If a bullet does not expand, less energy is transferred so the cavity is less.

Let's go to the other extreme......what would happen if the bullet fully expanded and fragmented, expending 100% of its energy inside the animal. This is the concept behind the Berger bullets, DRT bullets, and others.

[Mike D]

Recovered Bullets

Nope I want a complete pass through.

The maximum amount of damage will occur to tissue at the highest velocity so I put zero merit to the expends all energy inside the animal theory.

In the event they do run, I want blood gushing from 2 holes, not just one.


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[tbeak]

Yea you're right, im thinking of the fluid dynamics part

Where my point of discussion is on the damage. I'll use a simple sewing needle as example. Assuming I apply the same pressure to the needle with my hand, if I push it all the way through, say my forearm, more damage is created by opening two wound openings. If i 'expend' all the energy and only go halfway, not as much damage. Then add in the fluid dynamic component of both examples, how would expending all energy inside the chest cavity be desirable?

All my thoughts are based on normal expanding hunting bullets, not fragment type rounds. The shrapnel that those create during expansion result in a different type of damage and not necessarily fluid dynamic?

[Outbreaker]

Nope I want a complete pass through.

The maximum amount of damage will occur to tissue at the highest velocity so I put zero merit to the expends all energy inside the animal theory.

In the event they do run, I want blood gushing from 2 holes, not just one.


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For work to be done in the animal energy has to be expended.

Work= change in energy

If it goes in at 3000fps and exits at 3000fps then no work will be done and no tissues will be influenced. This is your maximum velocity theory.

You will have 2 holes and no blood because no work was done on those tissues then there will be no blood to "Pour out". The laws of physics must be obeyed.

If you want tissue to be influenced you have to expend energy.....period. If you want to expend energy on a second hole, that is fine......But this still is you buying into the expending of energy theory.

[Outbreaker]

Yea you're right, im thinking of the fluid dynamics part

Where my point of discussion is on the damage. I'll use a simple sewing needle as example. Assuming I apply the same pressure to the needle with my hand, if I push it all the way through, say my forearm, more damage is created by opening two wound openings. If i 'expend' all the energy and only go halfway, not as much damage. Then add in the fluid dynamic component of both examples, how would expending all energy inside the chest cavity be desirable?

All my thoughts are based on normal expanding hunting bullets, not fragment type rounds. The shrapnel that those create during expansion result in a different type of damage and not necessarily fluid dynamic?

It is still energy doing work.

The needle will do more work on your forearm because there is more tissue that it is disrupting.....this will also need more energy to accomplish.

The heart and lungs are in a suspended "Sac" in a negative pressure environment (thoracic cavity). This energy transfer shakes the hell out of them causing massive damage (aside from the physical trauma of the bullet tracks). This is similar to why a dog that is hit by a car can die from bleeding to death in the lungs when there are not any visible wounds outside.

[Mike D]

For work to be done in the animal energy has to be expended.



Work= change in energy



If it goes in at 3000fps and exits at 3000fps then no work will be done and no tissues will be influenced. This is your maximum velocity theory.



You will have 2 holes and no blood because no work was done on those tissues then there will be no blood to "Pour out". The laws of physics must be obeyed.



If you want tissue to be influenced you have to expend energy.....period. If you want to expend energy on a second hole, that is fine......But this still is you buying into the expending of energy theory.

Well I suppose if you had non expanding bullets your theory would be correct. An expanding Bullet will crush plenty of tissue within the temporary stretch cavity (easily indicated in Ballistic gelatin tests). The permanent wound channel will provide the blood trail. I want as Large of a temp cavity to crush as much tissue as possible while leaving as large of a permanent wound channel to allow as much external blood loss as possible.


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[okrattler]

Interesting thought. I can understand this but also it hasn't created the maximum amount of damage?
By going all the way through it's creating the shockwave effect, causing internals to rupture. By using all its energy does less "impact" occur?

These are questions for debate not statements

In my opinion it just depends on the type of bullet. Hydrostatic shock kills. Which is why an expanding bullet or a bullet that fragments are way more lethal than a FMJ for example. I'm sure I didn't give any information to anyone that doesn't already know but.....all I can chalk it up to is type of bullet as far as killing capability goes.

[Big Mike M]

I’ve killed several S. Texas bucks with my Mark V 7MM Weatherby Mag with 160 grain Weatherby ammo and had the bullet lodged between the skin and meat. Bucks were quartering away and went through ribs, backbone, and shoulder on opposite side. They fall straight down.

[Outbreaker]

Well I suppose if you had non expanding bullets your theory would be correct. An expanding Bullet will crush plenty of tissue within the temporary stretch cavity (easily indicated in Ballistic gelatin tests). The permanent wound channel will provide the blood trail. I want as Large of a temp cavity to crush as much tissue as possible while leaving as large of a permanent wound channel to allow as much external blood loss as possible.


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For a bullet to expand requires an expenditure in energy.

To crush requires an expenditure of energy.

To develop a temporary cavity requires an expenditure of energy.

To create a permanent wound cavity requires an expenditure of energy.

So again......what part of not believing in expending energy do you not believe in?????????

[tbeak]

I don't think it's the energy thing, it's having a pass trough or having the bullet expend all the energy and remain inside the cavity people are discussing

Everything requires energy, just is it better to have it still be expending it as it passes all the way through or use it all and stay inside