Too little headspacing???

[DuramaxDude]

I replaced the bolt head on a rifle and it appears that the new bolt head may be just a tid bit longer. The bolt still closes on and empty casing and ejects fine. I was wondering what happens if there is too little headspace? Like catastrophic failure or what? I don't have a any go and no go headspace gauges to use. It is on a 300 win mag.

[Minnow Stalker]

What makes you say there is to little head spacing if you don't have go and no go gauges? Are you basing that off of how one piece of brace will close with the bolt? What was the cause of replacing the bolt head?


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[DuramaxDude]

What makes you say there is to little head spacing if you don't have go and no go gauges? Are you basing that off of how one piece of brace will close with the bolt? What was the cause of replacing the bolt head?


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I was curious since the new bolt head seemed to be a little bit longer that the old one. I figured that may tighten up the head space.

[treestand]

If the bolt closes normally, you do not have too little headspace.

How much longer is the new bolt? What rifle? The British Lee Enfield rifles were designed with replaceable bolt heads so that as they wore and developed too much headspace, a longer bolt head could be installed to correct the problem.

[poisonivie]

If the bolt closes normally, you do not have too little headspace.

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[Livin'2hunt]

If you aren't experiencing very tight bolt manipulation or the inability to close the bolt, you do not have tight headspacing. You'll still want to have a competent gunsmith check the headspacing to make sure you don't have too much headspacing. That could be catastrophic as well.

[DuramaxDude]

If the bolt closes normally, you do not have too little headspace.

How much longer is the new bolt? What rifle? The British Lee Enfield rifles were designed with replaceable bolt heads so that as they wore and developed too much headspace, a longer bolt head could be installed to correct the problem.

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If you aren't experiencing very tight bolt manipulation or the inability to close the bolt, you do not have tight headspacing. You'll still want to have a competent gunsmith check the headspacing to make sure you don't have too much headspacing. That could be catastrophic as well.

It was a little stiff to close to begin with and still is but what do you mean by inability to close it? Like you have to crank down on the bolt handle to close it or if you cant close it at all?

[treestand]

It was a little stiff to close to begin with and still is but what do you mean by inability to close it? Like you have to crank down on the bolt handle to close it or if you cant close it at all?

If it is harder to close than it used to be, and the only thing you changed was the bolt, I would suspect too little headspace but only by a very small amount. This can also happen with reloads that are insufficiently resized or trimmed so try it with commercial ammo to see if is any different. i believe the 300WM headspaces on the band - is the difficulty to close throughout the bolt travel or just the last half inch or so?

[LWolken]

What kind of rifle?


For a Rem 700 the OP needs to make sure the bolt closes freely on a empty chamber with a stripped bolt!


Remove the firing pin and spring assembly. Place scotch tape over the primer trim around the rim. Now see if the bolt has any resistance when it cams into the locked position? If it closes with very little difference than on an empty chamber your head space is good. Add a second piece and it should NOT close. This is ballpark! only way to know for sure is with go-no go gauges. Even with virgin brass you could run into problems since ammo manufacturers tend to produce on the short side and gun manufacturers tend to chamber on the long side. This excess head space can shorten brass life considerably if you are reloading. It can also lead to case head separation which is catastrophic! Its generally not a good idea to swap around bolts without using gauges just too many variables.

[DuramaxDude]

What kind of rifle?

Savage 111 trophy hunter xp

[DuramaxDude]

What kind of rifle?


For a Rem 700 the OP needs to make sure the bolt closes freely on a empty chamber with a stripped bolt!


Remove the firing pin and spring assembly. Place scotch tape over the primer trim around the rim. Now see if the bolt has any resistance when it cams into the locked position? If it closes with very little difference than on an empty chamber your head space is good. Add a second piece and it should NOT close. This is ballpark! only way to know for sure is with go-no go gauges. Even with virgin brass you could run into problems since ammo manufacturers tend to produce on the short side and gun manufacturers tend to chamber on the long side. This excess head space can shorten brass life considerably if you are reloading. It can also lead to case head separation which is catastrophic! Its generally not a good idea to swap around bolts without using gauges just too many variables.

If it is harder to close than it used to be, and the only thing you changed was the bolt, I would suspect too little headspace but only by a very small amount. This can also happen with reloads that are insufficiently resized or trimmed so try it with commercial ammo to see if is any different. i believe the 300WM headspaces on the band - is the difficulty to close throughout the bolt travel or just the last half inch or so?

Its stiff to close at the initial motion to close. Like the bolt handle at its most upright position then push the bolt in from there its the initial downward motion to close it is the point where it is stiff. It was before I swapped bolt heads and is just as stiff as it was before maybe slightly more.

[treestand]

It could be a poor fit between the bolt lugs and the bolt recesses. Make sure the bolt recesses are clean and lightly lubricated. You could try polishing the lugs / recesses by putiing a little polishing compound on the lugs and repeatedly working the bolt. If is still a problem, you need to see a gunsmith or just live with it.

[Jethro]

I have done several barrel swaps on Savage rifles, and changing the bolt head can definitely change headspace. However, you need a better way to check it than just feel on previously resized brass. There are just too many variables going on there to know for sure what is going on without it. Resetting headspace isn't that hard on a Savage since all you have to do is break the barrel nut loose and screw the barrel in or out. But you need a standard to check against. I have set headspace just using good quality factory ammo before, but an actual headspace guage is much better, especially if you suspect problems.

Savage rifles are really bad about having poor bolt timing as well, and sometimes that can be mistaken for headspace issues if you really don't understand what is going on. Honestly, Savages have just pretty crappy extraction, and the bolt being out of time on the extraction cycle can do funky things, like give hard bolt lift on moderate pressure loads, sticking at the very top of the bolt throw, things like that. That is why there are kits on the market to "fix" (actually put baid-aids on) the problem.

If your new bolt head is "tighter" than the old one, then what is going to happen is a good possibility of running into the extraction issues mentioned above. Since most reloading dies do not fully size all the way to the base of the cartridge, the base of your brass is now going to be slightly big for your chamber since the cases are tapered. Maybe you can fix it by sizing different, maybe not. I have seen it go both ways.

Most Savage rifles do fine with swapping parts around, but some can be really fickle beasts if bolt timing is off. Google "bolt timing on Savage rifle," and read up on it.

[TxNurse]

Check headspace with proper gauges before shooting. No other discussion needed.

[LWolken]

I would mark up the backs of the locking lugs with machinist dye or sharpie. See how the lugs are contacting the recess. If its uneven you might be able to lap the lugs with valve polishing compound. Once the bolt closes properly check the head space on virgin brass as I described above.