Who Gets to Breed? Very Heavy Text with Video Links

[venado]

We're talking about deer here.. To look at all of this will take a good while. The videos are best on a full screen HD PC monitor.

For anyone that wants to start at the the beginning of this tale, here are the two previous links that were on the Game Management Forum.

Bachelor Group South Central Texas Bucks

Out of Focus Buck

Someone asked on the deer management threads when the rancher would want to shoot the incredible and only tagged buck (#21) on his ranch and here was my reply:

As you can imagine, this buck is very special in an open pasture environment. The good luck involved in getting a buck of this caliber even in a pen by a breeder is significant. Because of that, shooting 21 is about the lowest priority possible on the owner's list.

What is high on his list is the desire to get as much of 21's genes into the ranch doe population. Ideally it would be great to set up breeding pens and somehow put him in there, but the owner is not a deer breeder and therefore we will have to hope that he is a horny dude and finds as many estrus does as possible and is successful in breeding them.

21 has a lot of bucks in the pasture that will have something to say about his breeding success, some are older and/or more aggressive. 21's antlers will not overly impress some of them so it is reasonable that he might only breed with a few does in a season. With all of that in mind the longer he can live the better are the odds that we will get to see what his offspring look like.

This is the same thought process followed by most ranch managers. They may not have a 21 but they sure let their best bucks live long enough to spread their genes as widely as possible. It takes time and patience but is fun along the way and hopefully can lead to superior results. The results on a ranch like this one can not be compared with those on most places, I think that thought applies to every location so the comparisons that really count are those in comparable environments. Easier said than done when looking at a great mount on the game room wall.

A number of you have followed the two threads in the Game Management forum on the buck that many referred to as the "Out of Focus Buck". Not long ago I corned an open area and not long after that a doe entered the opening and she was closely followed by #21 and another big buck I call Prickly Tines (PT). I started videoing and caught some interesting behavior. As you may recall I discussed that there were bucks that would not be too impressed with #21 and might prevent him from breeding all the does that we would like for him to breed. PT is likely one of those bucks..!

Here is the video:

Two Monster Bucks

Now just a few days ago I corned again and a number of bucks showed up. The same two in the previous video were there and who breeds this doe was essentially resolved. A 5yo vs. a 3yo, no contest. Here is the link to that video:

Attitude Breeds

When we get to see real world results it can be pretty frustrating to realize that the buck we managers pass so he can breed and improve herd genetics may not actually do much breeding after all. This is happening often at night or when we are not there so we really have no idea who actually breeds the does.

[lab man]

DMP permit

[ethic1]

Take the older one out! [emoji23]


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[RascalArms]

Dang fine animals Paul!!

[peterp63]

WOW. Great video and even better bucks! If you pass on a particular buck you are wanting him to breed and he can't if he's dead. Even if he didn't get this doe, he may get another. Also, next season he will be bigger and stronger and will breed.

[Trinity Outfitters]

Good stuff--and amazing deer. Thanks for sharing!

[venado]

DMP permit

The owner has no interest in DMP because his goal was/is to see what happens with great genetics followed by deer just being deer in as natural an environment as possible under the circumstances. Few people that I am aware of have tried this to see what happens over time.

WOW. Great video and even better bucks! If you pass on a particular buck you are wanting him to breed and he can't if he's dead. Even if he didn't get this doe, he may get another. Also, next season he will be bigger and stronger and will breed.

Exactly correct with the caveat that 21 makes it through the stresses of post rut and a hot summer. Research indicates that less that 25% of deer reach maturity even in environments where hunting is not a factor. Even in good times their life is rough..!

[peterp63]

The owner has no interest in DMP because his goal was/is to see what happens with great genetics followed by deer just being deer in as natural an environment as possible under the circumstances. Few people that I am aware of have tried this to see what happens over time.







Exactly correct with the caveat that 21 makes it through the stresses of post rut and a hot summer. Research indicates that less that 25% of deer reach maturity even in environments where hunting is not a factor. Even in good times their life is rough..!

Good info. I'd be willing to bet the majority of the 75% that don't make it are taken within the first year as fawns/yearlings when they are most vulnerable. Once they've made it this far their chances go way up.


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[hallp82]

Great stuff here thanks for sharing


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[bowburro.53]

thanks for sharing, nontyp score? 240 more?

[rsquared]

great looking deer you have there..


nature's laws are fascinating

while the 5 yr old would be welcome to hang out on my ranch and breed all the does he likes... it is obvious that he is the king of that pasture and none of the other bucks have the moxie to push him out.

i have observed similar situations where a big bodied old 6 pointer is ruling the pasture and keeping all the better bucks away from the does....
nature doesn't care about racks and points as much as we do... it still comes down to the amount of fight in that deer...

and yes... i whacked the 6 pointer

[AntlerCollector]

Awesome deer!

[TxHuntFish]

Really not all that surprising, but cool video/interaction regardless.

[venado]

Good info. I'd be willing to bet the majority of the 75% that don't make it are taken within the first year as fawns/yearlings when they are most vulnerable. Once they've made it this far their chances go way up.


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peterp63, although I agree that what you say seems logical that does not appear to be the case. I posted a thread some time ago on buck survival and according to well known biologists (as noted in post 14 of the following thread Buck Survival), they think the loss is in the order of 25% per year.

In our case we just hope that #21 isn't part of that 25%.