Affecting Genetics through culling.

[Outbreaker]

I hear all the time "kill what you want you will never affect the genetics"

I was on a the smallest lease (3,500ac) on a 60,000ac ranch. The biologist that ran the place believed that all spikes were inferior to forked antlers. He allowed all spikes to be killed as free bucks that did not count against the lease quota. After 10 years we got to where we just stopped seeing any spikes. Maybe 1 every 2 years. Almost all 1.5yo deer we saw were 8pts. Hell I even saw a 12pt 1.5yo deer with a 6 inch spread.

A new biologist took over and had the belief that all spikes could be trophies. He "Outlawed" shooting spikes by counting them toward the buck quota. Within 10 years we had spikes everywhere and rarely saw a 1.5yo deer that was more than 6pts with most being 4pts.

Some common sense needs to be used with the culling though. Our lease had an early rut (done by thanksgiving), in deep south texas spikes may just be late births. I also passed a 6mo spike I saw.

I convinced a landowner to cull all spikes when I had him shoot a huge bodied deer that was barely 13". When a 5.5yo deer is 13 inches and scores 91" BC as an 8pt. That is what spikes grow up to be.

When you say it can't affect you are ignorant. If you say that you will see massive changes immediately you are ignorant as well.

[CastAndBlast]

The proof is in the pudding so to speak....post some pictures. I have seen pictures from the guys that don't shoot spikes, but have not seen anything better from the guys that do shoot spikes. Please enlighten us "ignorant" ones.......

[Walker]

Years ago a biologist at the Kerr told me that culling for genetics on high fence deer would take 15 to 20 or more years to produce noticeable results and the culling must be intense and thorough (zero tolerance) for cull class deer. Low fence is even more problematic depending on neighbors practices.

[flywise]

3500ac is not a small lease
and your first biologist was right on the money

[TX_Hoghunter]

Culling only works if you can control the situation. Nutrition and age have more to do with trophies in most situations. For your results to be valid you would have to be able to control the nutritional level for every deer. You would have to keep your population in check so that you did not have an extended breeding cycle. You would have to make sure everything is on a level playing field and that you were not just seeing false results.

-john

[Smart]

Affecting Genetics through culling.

I hear all the time "kill what you want you will never affect the genetics"



I was on a the smallest lease (3,500ac) on a 60,000ac ranch. The biologist that ran the place believed that all spikes were inferior to forked antlers. He allowed all spikes to be killed as free bucks that did not count against the lease quota. After 10 years we got to where we just stopped seeing any spikes. Maybe 1 every 2 years. Almost all 1.5yo deer we saw were 8pts. Hell I even saw a 12pt 1.5yo deer with a 6 inch spread.



A new biologist took over and had the belief that all spikes could be trophies. He "Outlawed" shooting spikes by counting them toward the buck quota. Within 10 years we had spikes everywhere and rarely saw a 1.5yo deer that was more than 6pts with most being 4pts.



Some common sense needs to be used with the culling though. Our lease had an early rut (done by thanksgiving), in deep south texas spikes may just be late births. I also passed a 6mo spike I saw.



I convinced a landowner to cull all spikes when I had him shoot a huge bodied deer that was barely 13". When a 5.5yo deer is 13 inches and scores 91" BC as an 8pt. That is what spikes grow up to be.



When you say it can't affect you are ignorant. If you say that you will see massive changes immediately you are ignorant as well.

Thinking all spikes grow up to be 91" type deer is ignorant.

[flywise]

Thinking all spikes grow up to be 91" type deer is ignorant

who said they did?

[Smart]

Affecting Genetics through culling.

who said they did?

Read the op again.

[Outbreaker]

The proof is in the pudding so to speak....post some pictures. I have seen pictures from the guys that don't shoot spikes, but have not seen anything better from the guys that do shoot spikes. Please enlighten us "ignorant" ones.......

Thinking pictures will prove anything is the definition of ignorance.

Looking at the harvest data over the 20 years he managed. 10 before spikes and 10 after spikes. Told the story.

60,000 ac under management and every deer was checked in, aged, weight and body condition checked. The data tells the story.

[flywise]

Read the op again.

I somehow missed that last sentence...but would you not agree that spikes MOST LIKELY in 5 years will be inferior to a 4 or 6 point in 5 years?

[LWD]

3500ac is not a small lease
and your first biologist was right on the money

This for sure. If you've got the deer—i.e. the population is large and self-sustaining—whack the spikes. Why not get bigger deer sooner? You wouldn't at the expense of the overall herd, but it sounds like y'all had plenty of deer.

LWD

[Smart]

I somehow missed that last sentence...but would you not agree that spikes MOST LIKELY in 5 years will be inferior to a 4 or 6 point in 5 years?

If a spike grows to 130 instead of 140 on our low fence lease, I am good with it. If I was managing a place full of 170-200" HF deer I might have a different outlook.

[CastAndBlast]

Thinking pictures will prove anything is the definition of ignorance.

Looking at the harvest data over the 20 years he managed. 10 before spikes and 10 after spikes. Told the story.

60,000 ac under management and every deer was checked in, aged, weight and body condition checked. The data tells the story.

Lol...SOOOOO you can't get general harvest data from pictures, and pictures don't prove anything? You are already winning. Okay, lets play your game...

Show us you harvest data...since pictures are apparently ignorant. I am sure that at least a couple of those not shooting spikes will be able to share their harvest data and compare. That is the "proof in the pudding" I am talking about. Anyone can sit here and spew "ignorance" on both sides. However, I am a "believe it when I see it kind of guy".

[flywise]

Lol...SOOOOO you can't get general harvest data from pictures, and pictures don't prove anything? You are already winning. Okay, lets play your game...

Show us you harvest data...since pictures are apparently ignorant. I am sure that at least a couple of those not shooting spikes will be able to share their harvest data and compare. That is the "proof in the pudding" I am talking about. Anyone can sit here and spew "ignorance" on both sides. However, I am a "believe it when I see it kind of guy".

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdf

[Outbreaker]

Thinking all spikes grow up to be 91" type deer is ignorant.

I did not say it. I said all 91" deer at 5.5yo were spikes at 1.5yo. That is a totally different statement.