When a land owner won't convey minerals in sale

[bdog14]

I have tens of thousands of acres of mineral rights for sale in Texas. PM me if you'd like...it may not be worth your efforts to pursue them if you like the surface. There are areas of Texas where mineral rights go for $100/ac...essentially unmarketable.

[290WEST]

id say it all depends on the location as to how valuable the minerals are. If you really want to know the mineral ownership of a tract, hire an O&G attorney. just because the owner "thinks" he owns all the minerals and was even possibly leased with the assumption that he has all the minerals doesnt mean he does. Oil and Gas Landmen can make mistakes and it all comes out in a title opinion that is done by the O&G title attorney before drilling a well.

[bphillips]

Not trying to be a smart azz or anything but it 100% is correct. I have no idea if the seller has the exec rights but they are what are needed in order to have final say so on what does and doesn't happen with an oil company stepping foot on a property. If you have the exec rights then you negotiate the lease even if you have 0 of the minerals. They negotiate the lease and the non exec min owner will ratify said lease and be paid bonus money accordingly.

I've been a Landman for the last 8 years. I do this kind of stuff on a daily basis. You are right, there are a ton of variables that we don't know but if the seller has minerals and the exec rights then he should pursue the exec rights and 50% of what seller owns. That way he is protected and has final say so.

Yep


I wouldn't expect any minerals these days personally but I would never buy a place where I didn't have majority of exec rights. I'm confused as to why people even consider doing that

[Drycreek3189]

Or if you didn't like the terms of the sale, just don't buy. I don't like the communist lean to this conversation.

No communist lean here that I can see. We are not talking about the state owning the minerals and passing them out to whoever they see fit. We're talking about good old fashioned capitalism, you know, the golden rule. Them that owns the gold makes the rules !

And I have turned down many a deal because I didn't like the terms. But this law was perpetrated by folks that wanted to make money off of land that they did not own, at the expense of folks that did not know better, at least in the beginning. Nowadays, most people know at least something about mineral rights, and some, like me, own places with no minerals. And no, I've not had any drilling on the two places that I own, and ,yes, I have worked in the oilfield all my life, so if it happens, I know there's nothing I can do about it. It's reality, but I don't have to like it.

[John Paul]

Realtor as well as seller will always say "we believe they own all the minerals". Without a recent title search the mineral ownership can not be determined. My prof. Opinion is do not let anyone other than an attorney give you the exact percentage based on the title search.
But just to throw a wrench in the system, Title Policies from title after they have done the research will not insure the mineral portion of the property, regardless of what is determined.
Imagine if you will a can of , pick up sticks, every stick accounts for a part of the mineral interest. Surface, depths, in production, orphaned, on and on. Get a attorney to determine and it still might not be exactly right. Seen it, been there.

[Chance Love]

You need to hire an attorney to do a mineral title search. A LOT of landowners have no idea what they actually own in regards to mineral rights. Hire an O&G attorney.

That being said, you can always negotiate. What is your Realtor telling you? Has he not suggested hiring an attorney?

[kingchip]

No communist lean here that I can see. We are not talking about the state owning the minerals and passing them out to whoever they see fit. We're talking about good old fashioned capitalism, you know, the golden rule. Them that owns the gold makes the rules !

And I have turned down many a deal because I didn't like the terms. But this law was perpetrated by folks that wanted to make money off of land that they did not own, at the expense of folks that did not know better, at least in the beginning. Nowadays, most people know at least something about mineral rights, and some, like me, own places with no minerals. And no, I've not had any drilling on the two places that I own, and ,yes, I have worked in the oilfield all my life, so if it happens, I know there's nothing I can do about it. It's reality, but I don't have to like it.

Well, I don't know where splitting up the bundle of rights started, but I know many that it has helped. Back in the mid 50's we had this little drought in south Texas that just about cost everybody their land and livelihood. Some enterprising ranchers were able to approach Conoco and sell some minerals. The Walker family was one of these families, but there were many more in the Mirando City area. If they were unable to split that bundle, they may have been forced to sell out.

And no, having laws where guv dictates what and how you are allowed to sell, is pretty lame.

I have another friend that bought 2 clean sections in '11 I think it was, from yet another friend. They got 100% minerals on that 1280 acres, about 20 miles east of Pearsall adjacent to Shiner Ranch. Paid off the purchase in 2 years from O&G. It does still happen.

[marceco]

I would not buy land without 100% mineral rights , there is still some . I have passed on many tracts I wanted and will continue until I find the " perfect scenario " . It should also be noted that in some states there are separate water rights and I have seen wind rights starting to be listed . . .

[Drycreek3189]

Well, I don't know where splitting up the bundle of rights started, but I know many that it has helped. Back in the mid 50's we had this little drought in south Texas that just about cost everybody their land and livelihood. Some enterprising ranchers were able to approach Conoco and sell some minerals. The Walker family was one of these families, but there were many more in the Mirando City area. If they were unable to split that bundle, they may have been forced to sell out.

And no, having laws where guv dictates what and how you are allowed to sell, is pretty lame.

I have another friend that bought 2 clean sections in '11 I think it was, from yet another friend. They got 100% minerals on that 1280 acres, about 20 miles east of Pearsall adjacent to Shiner Ranch. Paid off the purchase in 2 years from O&G. It does still happen.

We had the same drought in East Texas. My daddy was running a dairy and wound up selling every cow he had for $38 a head. That's thirty eight dollars. I'm glad the ranchers got some relief from selling their mineral rights. I guess that was their choice. Many, many people who have bought land in the years since have had only two choices. Buy without minerals, or don't have any land. To each his own, but I have seen far too many landowners buy land only to have rigs and locations all over it, but no money in their pocket except whatever the operator wants to pay. I know that they should have thought about that before buying, but it doesn't seem right to me if you buy the surface and you don't own it all the way to the magma in the center of the earth ( if it's actually there )

[Kevin]

I didn't read all the responses, but when I purchased my land in 2010 I purchased it with 100% mineral rights. You can still buy land like this in Texas, but the problem is the counties you can do this in really have no known mineral Fannin, Co Texas 1 hr from Dallas and great hunting for pigs and pretty good deer. Deer hunting is getting better every year. They have plans to add 2 new big lakes in the next 15 years.






There are a few little pigs too...


Come join me!

[Big pig]

It is pretty common for people not know what % of the minerals they own. Its not that far fetched for the seller to wants to keep 1\2 of whatever minerals they own.

This. Anything leased recently is easy. Otherwise, it is a job for a Landman.

[Curtis32]

Make sure you inquire about water rights as well. There are places where there are co-ops formed and land owners have leased their water rights at certain depths/zones.

[35remington]

I agree you need a lawyer (to hire a land man to search up the documents so the lawyer can write a title opinion). I disagree that YOU need to pay for it. Make the seller pay.