would you pay more for a house....

[Sticks&Strings]

what kind of grants and tax breaks could you get from Uncle Sugar ?
Some states like colorado are getting pissy about collecting rainwater, may want to check into that.

Not sure yet and I think a bunch depends on what extent "green" you are.

My main goal here was to figure out if the customer would pay more for an energy efficient house. It has turned into appraised values, profits, etc. I am just curious if, there are two similar homes for sale in a subdivision. Would you pay more for the energy efficient one? If so, how much? It's tiered obviously depending on what level it is efficient. But for ease of comparisons here, would people pay $5000 more for a home with rainwater collection system for the yard and landscape? 10k more for it??
How about geothermal, solar, etc.??? Forget about the business aspects as long as both homes appraise.

[JHT]

For sure. This is most likely my plan. I just wanted feedback here on what most people thought. It's kind of funny because everyone here preaches about foam insulation and cheap electric bills, but if they really dug into it, it's not that great of an investment and there are better, and cheaper ways to reduce your electric bills. That is why I posed this here, to see if that train of thought carried over into other aspects of the build they may be less familiar with. It doesn't appear it does. Which is good to know.

Most of the people who go this route already have the money. It's more of an emotional thing rather than financial to go this way.


I bet in 10 years it will be different.

[Encinal]

Not sure yet and I think a bunch depends on what extent "green" you are.

My main goal here was to figure out if the customer would pay more for an energy efficient house. It has turned into appraised values, profits, etc. I am just curious if, there are two similar homes for sale in a subdivision. Would you pay more for the energy efficient one? If so, how much? It's tiered obviously depending on what level it is efficient. But for ease of comparisons here, would people pay $5000 more for a home with rainwater collection system for the yard and landscape? 10k more for it??
How about geothermal, solar, etc.??? Forget about the business aspects as long as both homes appraise.

Looking at the average utilities would help... but since you are a builder... the house isn't going to be lived in... you could give projected comps... but as a buyer.. I'm going to take those with a grain of salt and discount the heck out of them.

[Sticks&Strings]

Looking at the average utilities would help... but since you are a builder... the house isn't going to be lived in... you could give projected comps... but as a buyer.. I'm going to take those with a grain of salt and discount the heck out of them.

Yeah I hear that. I think the way to do it is to just study cost trends and compare today's cost to that 10, 20, 30 yrs ago.

[texan4ut]

As an appraiser cost does not equal value. Often times cost as in a pool, solar panels, 20 xtra electrical outlets etc will only get you 25 to 50 cents on the dollar.

[Sticks&Strings]

As an appraiser cost does not equal value. Often times cost as in a pool, solar panels, 20 xtra electrical outlets etc will only get you 25 to 50 cents on the dollar.

Exactly.

[8mpg]

By r value I was including air seepage. Which is why I said there are cheaper ways. But to each their own. Some people must have it. Truth is, it's not a great investment. The numbers prove it.

What is the alternative? Leaving a/c ducting in 120* attic is not a great idea. Soffits? I dont have exact numbers but I will tell you I paid $6k for insulation for the exterior walls and roof decking with open cell foam. My attic is only a few degrees warmer or cooler than the inside of the house. My electric bill (my house is 100% electric) and it was $80 for 2100sqft house. I pay less for my electric bill than most of my coworkers in their 800-1000sqft apartments. Id assume Im saving $100/mo on heating and cooling with the spray foam and smaller 2.5ton heat pump. My original a/c quotes wanted 4ton and one guy recommended a 5 ton just for "good measure". Short cycling would have killed my house and electric bill. What numbers are you quoting? Energy raters would probably beg to differ. There is an energy rater on gardenweb forums out of Lousiana that consistenly recommends a conditioned and sealed envelope with foam. Also, a few houses that I have gone through (models) do guaranteed electric bills not to exceed $xx.xx based on their energy design and they all used foam. Its not cheap... doing a traditional attic would have saved $3k on insulation costs but Id have to step up to a 3.5-4ton a/c unit. $1500 in equipment costs to step up. Id really like to say foam was a great addition to my house and the offset based on the simple numbers Im throwing out will be paid back in 24months.

Not sure yet and I think a bunch depends on what extent "green" you are.

My main goal here was to figure out if the customer would pay more for an energy efficient house. It has turned into appraised values, profits, etc. I am just curious if, there are two similar homes for sale in a subdivision. Would you pay more for the energy efficient one? If so, how much? It's tiered obviously depending on what level it is efficient. But for ease of comparisons here, would people pay $5000 more for a home with rainwater collection system for the yard and landscape? 10k more for it??
How about geothermal, solar, etc.??? Forget about the business aspects as long as both homes appraise.

Its very hard to say.. what price point house are you building. $5k on a$100k feels like a lot more than $5k on $400k. I think your lower end houses will not pay for the "green" movement. They may pay for some low cost efficient costs though.
Also, geothermal is crazy expensive unless you can do a horizontal ground loop system. Drilling for a vertical ground loop system can be $30k+ to save $100/mo on electric bills? Solar without a huge subsidy also probably wont sell.

[CaptainDave]

I hear ya about being profitable...but r-value isnt the benefit of foam in my mind and I think you are overlooking a very large efficiency upgrade for the money. Spray foamed attic allows for a semi conditioned space for the a/c to sit in. This drops the demand of the a/c unit as you have 55*f air in the ducts in a 78*f attic, not 120*f attic. Also, the air sealing qualities is huge. Not trying to bag on you, but this is my problems with builders. The industry is changing and building science is key in my opinion. The old school methods of sloppy air sealing, 1 ton a/c per 500sqft rule of thumb and things like that are not the way to go. Just because you can get r-value cheaper doesnt mean its better. Air leakage can cause up to 25% of the heating/cooling costs and causes dust/allergy problems.

If you can get a spray foam attic, it's pretty neat. My parents had this installed in their new build back in 2014. They have an attic space that even in the height of the summer is only like 80 degrees. Their July electric bill was less than $150 and that's a 3,200 square foot bay house.

As for the OP, I think upgrades like spray foam insulation, LED lighting, tankless water heater, etc, are practical and somewhat affordable. These will payoff over time.

However, power alternatives like solar and other similar systems, I think the up-front cost are just too much for it to be a worth while investment. Not to mention any significant maintenance in the future could wipe out any energy cost savings. Just my opinion, but I don't think these things add significant value to a home unless the home is somewhat off the grid and away from reliable service.

As for as energy efficiency adding to home value or profit...I think it's more valuable for a long-term homeowner. The average home buyer probably is thinking more in the short-term, so I don't think a lot of stuff would increase the value all that much. I mean, even an average new house built to code today is a lot more efficient than a home even built even 20 years ago. I guess what I'm saying is the average home buyer probably is not too concerned about having LED lighting or spray foam insulation for that matter. That's why a lot of these things are options. If I was building a house specifically for resale, it would be up to code, plus a few extras, but not much more. If I was going to live in the house a number of years before selling, that would be different as some of these items would payoff over time.

[8mpg]

If you can get a spray foam attic, it's pretty neat. My parents had this installed in their new build back in 2014. They have an attic space that even in the height of the summer is only like 80 degrees. Their July electric bill was less than $150 and that's a 3,200 square foot bay house.

As for the OP, I think upgrades like spray foam insulation, LED lighting, tankless water heater, etc, are practical and somewhat affordable. These will payoff over time.

However, power alternatives like solar and other similar systems, I think the up-front cost are just too much for it to be a worth while investment. Not to mention any significant maintenance in the future could wipe out any energy cost savings.

As for as energy efficiency adding to home value or profit...I think it's more valuable for a long-term homeowner. The average home buyer probably is thinking more in the short-term, so I don't think a lot of stuff would increase the value all that much. I mean, even an average new house built to code today is a lot more efficient than a home even built even 20 years ago. I guess what I'm saying is the average home buyer probably is not too concerned about having LED lighting or spray foam insulation for that matter. That's why a lot of these things are options. If I was building a house specifically for resale, it would be up to code, plus a few extras, but not much more. If I was going to live in the house a number of years before selling, that would be different as some of these items would payoff over time.

The foam can be cost efficient based on the design of the house. My house (in my mind) is a great example. I have a 2100sqft 1 story (this house was built in 1963) with a 4:12 roof. The square footage of my roof isnt as much as say someone with the same layout and a 12:12 roof. 2 story will be more cost effective over a 1 story. I love it and like you said, its great to jump up in a 80* attic in the peak of summer.

I think you are right, most people are short term buyers. They are more focused on what they can see. They want granite counters, wood floors, not spray foam.

[junkmanhunter]

Exactly. I have always had the same thought. But I know it's the way of the future and with rising utility costs, what is that magic number that makes it worth it? $10k? 20k? 30k? ....

TO me this question depends on what the cost of the house is. Me personally, I am looking at buying some property and building a house this year. If the energy efficient upgrades cost me 10% of the cost of house, say 50k on a $500k house, I would think about it, anything more, I would be out. I think there are some other energy efficient things to do that help and are inexpensive upfront. Windows, doors, sealing around doors, direction house is placed on lot, trees placed strategically to help shade, layout of garage on house. To me those little things will make a huge difference.

I am seriously looking at solar panels for shop, and to run pool equipment. I will also be looking at the cost to add solr panels to the house. I think a well would be just as good or better than a rain water collection system.

The few experiences I have had with the spray foam have been positive. My brother has a 7000+sq ft house with an attic that has 12'-14' ceilings in the attic. He had the foam sprayed a couple of years ago and as they were spraying it, you could tell what part of the house was sprayed, it was already cooler as they were working. That cut his electric bill around 25-30%. He guessed he would break even after a couple of years.

[Sticks&Strings]

What is the alternative? Leaving a/c ducting in 120* attic is not a great idea. Soffits? I dont have exact numbers but I will tell you I paid $6k for insulation for the exterior walls and roof decking with open cell foam. My attic is only a few degrees warmer or cooler than the inside of the house. My electric bill (my house is 100% electric) and it was $80 for 2100sqft house. I pay less for my electric bill than most of my coworkers in their 800-1000sqft apartments. Id assume Im saving $100/mo on heating and cooling with the spray foam and smaller 2.5ton heat pump. My original a/c quotes wanted 4ton and one guy recommended a 5 ton just for "good measure". Short cycling would have killed my house and electric bill. What numbers are you quoting? Energy raters would probably beg to differ. There is an energy rater on gardenweb forums out of Lousiana that consistenly recommends a conditioned and sealed envelope with foam. Also, a few houses that I have gone through (models) do guaranteed electric bills not to exceed $xx.xx based on their energy design and they all used foam. Its not cheap... doing a traditional attic would have saved $3k on insulation costs but Id have to step up to a 3.5-4ton a/c unit. $1500 in equipment costs to step up. Id really like to say foam was a great addition to my house and the offset based on the simple numbers Im throwing out will be paid back in 24months.



Its very hard to say.. what price point house are you building. $5k on a$100k feels like a lot more than $5k on $400k. I think your lower end houses will not pay for the "green" movement. They may pay for some low cost efficient costs though.
Also, geothermal is crazy expensive unless you can do a horizontal ground loop system. Drilling for a vertical ground loop system can be $30k+ to save $100/mo on electric bills? Solar without a huge subsidy also probably wont sell.

The homes I build as specs are in the $350k- 400 range. And 2780-2950 sqft. Range. I used to live in one that I didn't do anything for aside from the norm for efficiency. Osb sheathing, tech shield, low e windows, etc. Our highest Bill was $180 with the ac at 72 during the day and 68 at night. The others I have built have been about the same. If I wanted to really go for a low utility bill, I would go 2x6 walls, caulk each insulation cavity, bibs in the wall, porches on the south and west sides of the house, properly placed trees for shade, led lights, and some solar tubes. I would spend less on that, have a better built house, nicer landscaping, lower bills, and money in my pocket.
The problem with foam, is by the time you have paid for your initial investment, your original hvac system is worn out and needs to be replaced. The homes I build cost about 2k for Batts and blown, foam would be north of 9k. Hvac is typically a wash. Yes, it's less tonnage for a foamed home but you typically need a 2 speed handler. So the savings isn't really there for me, but it is for a bunch of people. I try to use things that serve more than one purpose or add more than one value in my homes like the osb, or trees, or 2x6. I get 2 benefits out of each of those. For me foam gets only one, and then causes issues if you ever have a leak or need to drop a line in the wall, which are becoming things of the past now too. But that's just my idea on all this. Not saying it's right, just my position.

[txrhodes]

I sell homes for one of the most energy efficient builders around. We can build a 3k square foot home with an average electric bill around $115/month...and we guarantee it, as someone mentioned before.

When a new home is already efficient it makes things like solar panels have a much lower ROI, hence we don't even offer them.

Also, spray foam is fine, but depending on the humidity levels where you live, you may be better off with standard insulation.

[mikemorvan]

Most people stay in the same house for 4 - 7 years. If you're building a house to sell, the upgrades have to pay for themselves pretty quickly to make them attractive. Most don't pay back that quickly.

[PowThudBeer]

Moved into a 3500 sq ft house five years ago and a/c bills ran $600 in the summer. House was 11 yrs old when we moved in. We decided to build out our attic into a play room for the kids. It added 400 sq. ft. As they were re-pitching the roof our GC, and a friend, said a spray foam company was begging him for a test house to do at cost to prove out the spray foam. We paid $3k four years ago and had it done. Our electric bills have been 20% to 35% less monthly since. Has easily paid off. Plus, the attic is manageable to be in even in August. Has worked out for us.

[JBJTX81]

I would not buy the idea of a green home. Or pay extra for the sake of being greener. If you could show me believable numbers about how doing x would save me $y in z years then I would. There would need to be some net benefit for me to do it and I would want you to show me this benefit in the form of numbers. I would also want you to show me some place to research/verify/substantiate what you are telling me. Personally I would want these extras to be serviceable and I'd like to know that parts will be available for me to fix problems in the future. I'd prefer a small wind turbine for generating electricity but in urban areas that wont work.

Its a cute idea but I wouldn't pay more if there wasn't a net gain for me 10/15/20 years down the road.