Carrying in church.

[systemnt]

God did not spare His Son for a very good reason. His Son went to the cross and shed His blood to cover the sin of the world for all time until the end of this age. God did not just fail as a parent to protect His child. He used his Child. To stand by and let some evil one take your child's life to no avail when you have the means to stop it is negligence and sinful as far as I am concerned. Have you buried your own child sir? I HAVE! I buried my pride and joy. He was a dedicated disciple of the Lord. I had the great pleasure to lead him to the Lord and if I could have given my life to save his, I would have done that too. God did not give me that opportunity. However if the opportunity to prevent that from happening again, my conscience is clear and my heart is sound that I will be in the CENTER OF GOD's WILL to do so. Abraham was following the specific instruction of God the Father when he moved to sacrifice his son Issac. He was not being a pacifist hiding behind proof-texting and twisting scripture while someone was attempting to waste the life of his son... What you describe in scripture is a far cry from the indiscriminate violent taking of an innocent life in this day and age, and I for one think God would honor anyone who stood and faced evil straight on and stopped it.

Well said.

[systemnt]

You're right: I'm nobody. My judgement is the least of your worries.

"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day."

One verse! One verse! That's all I ask! One gospel-declaring verse to justify this packing heat in church mentality.

Here's the clue you haven't caught yet..even though it's hit you about the head a dozen times in this thread alone.
No one has to justify anything to you.
No one has to provide proof to you.
Your interpretation of what you believe has no bearing on how anyone else lives their lives.
Perhaps you missed it while conjuring up the pretentious thoughts you seem to think everyone should follow or succumb to. I don't know. Don't really care.
But I'll leave you with this.

[Patton]

Slick, I enjoy your posts a lot and hope we can share a campfire sometime.

You're right: I'm nobody. My judgement is the least of your worries.

"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day."

One verse! One verse! That's all I ask! One gospel-declaring verse to justify this packing heat in church mentality.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

If you know danger is coming to others, and you deliberately fail to warn the others of the danger or stop the attack, you are guilty of harming the victims. If you have a pistol in your waistband like it is your right to do, and a coward terrorist walks up the middle aisle past you with a Mac-10 mowing down families, it is your duty to take down an evil person like that.

[SaltwaterSlick]

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

If you know danger is coming to others, and you deliberately fail to warn the others of the danger or stop the attack, you are guilty of harming the victims. If you have a pistol in your waistband like it is your right to do, and a coward terrorist walks up the middle aisle past you with a Mac-10 mowing down families, it is your duty to take down an evil person like that.

Touche'! Well done General!

Probably the best example of this in the Bible is the 4th chapter of Nehemiah. The Israelites who were tasked with rebuilding the wall of Jerusalem to keep out their enemies so they could worship The Lord Their God, prayed to God for guidance. Nehemiah set up half the workers as guards with swords, spears, shields and bows to protect the other half who were building the wall. They were to kill anyone who attacked the workers to interrupt their work. They were doing God's work, and were led by God. We have the same obligation today.

The proper interpretation of the Commandment, Thou shall not kill is the word used for Murder, not all killing, but murder.

[SC-Texas]

And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…

John 2:15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!" And from Matthew 21:13"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.

Well that about wraps it up. Good Thing Jesus didn't have an M249 SAW and a few belts of ammo

[Tmag]

Well this thread went another direction since yesterday. Anybody else got any suggestions on how your church is going to respond to open carry.

[SC-Texas]

My church will allow it

[Bluesman]

Kansas has open carry now and concealed carry without a chl starting July 1st. I've been here now for 10 years and have not seen a civilian that open carrying. It doesn't mean some don't, I've just never seen it. I've never seen anyone open carry in a church except one and that was a cowboy church in Texas.

Back in the 60's it wasn't unusual to see a business owner walking to the bank to make a deposit, gun on the belt. I grew up there and as far as I know Kansas has always been open carry. There may have been a change when CHL originally came about.

As for church I think it's not unreasonable to assign a few members to be armed and be placed in obvious positions. In that case it should be open carry and a sign on the door stating that security is in place. For me, a concealed weapon is dumb in that circumstance.

[Shane]

Well this thread went another direction since yesterday. Anybody else got any suggestions on how your church is going to respond to open carry.

I don't plan on open carrying at church or anywhere else. I won't be upset if our church allows open carry and if some decide to do so. But I will still prefer to carry concealed. I won't get my 2A-loving panties in a wad if my church decides to post a 30.07 either. I'll be fine either way.

I suspect church leaders everywhere will be having lots of conversations about the pros and cons of open carry, and I'm sure there will be a variety of decisions made by different churches on the matter. My opinion: if a church's leadership has good reason to believe that open carry would distract from worship in their particular congregation, then they should post a 30.07 sign. The point of worship is to worship the Lord, not the 2nd Amendment. At the same time, I'd have a hard time staying at a church that also posted a 30.06 sign. I'm not interested in being a defenseless sitting duck.

[Tree]

I have a CHL but have not carried in church, however I plan on starting. Some in our church do carry and the pastor supports this. I am a member of our church security team and occasionally stand post during services. We were told that it is unlawful in the state of Texas to carry if you are part of a security detail unless you are a LEO. I don't know if this is accurate or not. I will not carry if I am working a security detail per the lead of our security team who is a LEO.

[Shane]

I have a CHL but have not carried in church, however I plan on starting. Some in our church do carry and the pastor supports this. I am a member of our church security team and occasionally stand post during services. We were told that it is unlawful in the state of Texas to carry if you are part of a security detail unless you are a LEO. I don't know if this is accurate or not. I will not carry if I am working a security detail per the lead of our security team who is a LEO.

That's not accurate. It was that way years ago, but the law was changed several years ago. Any CHL holder can carry in a church as long as the church doesn't post a 30.06 sign.

[Tmag]

I don't plan on open carrying at church or anywhere else. I won't be upset if our church allows open carry and if some decide to do so. But I will still prefer to carry concealed. I won't get my 2A-loving panties in a wad if my church decides to post a 30.07 either. I'll be fine either way.

I suspect church leaders everywhere will be having lots of conversations about the pros and cons of open carry, and I'm sure there will be a variety of decisions made by different churches on the matter. My opinion: if a church's leadership has good reason to believe that open carry would distract from worship in their particular congregation, then they should post a 30.07 sign. The point of worship is to worship the Lord, not the 2nd Amendment. At the same time, I'd have a hard time staying at a church that also posted a 30.06 sign. I'm not interested in being a defenseless sitting duck.

Thanks Shane, we do have plenty of CHL folks that carry in our church. It has never been an issue or stirred up any controversy. We do have LEO's that attend and at times they are in uniform, weapon holstered, as you would expect to see. We also have a CHL instructor that is retired LEO that teaches classes at the church.

On a side note, we had a Father/Son and Daughter skeet shoot on the church property at our pavilion Saturday morning with burgers and hot dogs for lunch, it was a great time. Had a safety zone where all guns were checked in and then given to shooters as they went to the line to shoot, never had more than 6 guns out of the safety zone at a time. Even had a game warden stop on the highway and observe for about 10 minutes before driving away.