Absolute Right to Free Speech?

[boomerball]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[Pkripper]

Saying something that is rude or vile or (God forbid) interpreted as "racist" is protected under the Constitution. It's different from the intent in yelling "fire" in a crowded theater since there is an actual possibility of injury to others.

What bothers me about the situation in the Oklahoma fraternity situation is that there was first zero due process in the frat being shut down, and the students expelled. That's not how a constitutional republic based on the rule of law operates. Second, while their words caused others consternation, is it reciprocal so if I'm insulted by rap lyrcis degrading woman as "Ho's" I have a reason to have somebody expelled? Finally, I read that the students signed a "code of conduct" which their actions violated. I am not an attorney or a constitutional scholar (like our president pretends to be), but I thought the principal is that you can not "sign away your rights"?

The only other time I've seen absolute authority like this with no due process is in the CA waterfowl refuges. The refuge manager by fish and game code has absolute authority on ejections from a refuge and determining when and if a hunter can return for various reasons. If its a legal issue it goes to court, but if it's unsportsmanlike behavior he can boot somebody out, no hearing or appeal.

Carry on!

I don't think the 2 Dallas boys were expelled, but rather are in fear for their lives,and left school voluntarily. The family of the one that lives in my neighborhood has already vacated their house due to press and threats. Funny how 2 freshman pledges look to take the fall for this fiasco.

[El Paisano]

Yes, we have an absolute right to free speech BUT along with that goes an absolute right to bear the consequences of your free speech.
Now, that does not address the issue of good judgment. Just like the right to bear arms, just because you can doesn't mean that you should.
The Constitution does not address stupidity.

[WCB]

One should not be allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater. But one has the absolute right to say they've read multiple reports of said fire.

What's your stance on free speech?

[PSD Ryan]

There's definitely a right to free speech, but that doesn't mean speech without consequences. When in uniform, military or police, or out of uniform but expressing yourself as such, I completely understand restricted speech.

If I posted things that discredit my department on my facebook, even if on facebook I've in no way identified myself as part of that department, I'd still probably expect to get fired over it. Just like that story about the girl who said something about her new job at the pizza delivery place being stupid on twitter, manager saw it and told her not to worry about coming in. It's a simple consequence.

[Turtlewax]

The problem is we as Americans have rolled over and let the government take over. How do you think the founding fathers viewed free speech. Obviously it was a major concern for them as they made it the first order of business. We have been taught over the years or as I call it "trained" to do what the government wants us to do. Keep rolling over folks....the best is yet to come.

[Dirtymike]

Free speech. Yes. Absolute free speech (in the sense of consequences from what you chose to say), no. Sometimes, it's good to tame your tongue.

Still working on it myself

[Playa]

A prime example would be that you cannot solicit a co-worker of the opposite sex and not expect repercussions. At the very least you would likely be looking for a new job, and possibly looking at criminal charges & even jail.

In other words "rights" to anything are neutral, that is to say that they cannot infringe upon the rights of others.

[tvc184]

Interesting news clip I just watched where an officer in another State was fired for making a FaceBook post, and there was a civil service hearing held. I'm not debating the issue of his firing, but the City's attorney was making his argument and stated, "No one has an absolute right to free speech...."

So my question to all, do we, as citizens of this great Nation, have an absolute right to free speech?

And the civil service board ruled in officer's favor and he got his job back.

No, we have very few absolute rights. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, right to bear arms, to not making incriminating statements, etc., are not absolute.

In the area of speech one of the landmark case laws is Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire from way back in 1942. We often hear where people say correctly that you can't yell fire in a theater or threaten someone. Chaplinsky put in place what is known as "fighting words" and drew limits on free speech as a criminal act (which is what free speech is free from).

Chaplinsky was using at least three freedoms from the First Amendment and was convicted of a crime and it was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in a unanimous decision. Chaplinsky was a Jehovah's Witness and was preaching from a public sidewalk. So far he had the right to freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Chaplinsky however started calling people a bunch of racketeers for following other organized religions and he got out of hand when the crowd started in on him. When the police came to quell the disturbance Chaplinsky called them a bunch of GD Fascists and racketeers. He was arrested for what in Texas is called Disorderly Conduct or otherwise known as disturbing the peace.

When his speech got to the point of started a disturbance, he lost his freedom of speech, religion and assembly. The SCOTUS said that words that inflict injury, tend to incite a breech of the peace, that are lewd, obscene, slanderous, etc., are not protected speech. Words themselves are not illegal but the manner in which they are used can be a criminal act. That is why you cannot threaten someone, cause a riot, created unreasonable noises, yell "fire" in that crowded theater and so on.

Most freedoms are not absolute. There are almost always limitations.

In the particular case of the fired officer, it is a civil issue, not a criminal issue and therefore not usually protected under freedom of speech. As at will employees we can be terminated for anything short of a federally (or state) protected class such as fired due to race, national origin, religion, etc. Of course there are other legal remedies like civil service laws (as is apparently in this case) and contract issues. I think an officer can easily be fired and have it upheld due to social media posts or other publicly made statements or actions that tend to go in the area of conduct unbecoming. Whether a civil service commission in this case felt what he said/typed did not rise to the level of a justified firing offense under that state's laws, nonetheless he could have been legally fired in my opinion and had it upheld under the First Amendment. Because a ruling body felt the officer did not cross the threshold of a firing offense does not mean that had he said something worse, he could have and may in the future still be fired.

All of the above said believing that you know all of that anyway but used your OP as my platform.

[Speedgoat]

Free speech is absolute in the absence of defamatory speech, threatening speech, or speech leading to ravel rousing.

[Ironman]

Saying something that is rude or vile or (God forbid) interpreted as "racist" is protected under the Constitution. It's different from the intent in yelling "fire" in a crowded theater since there is an actual possibility of injury to others.

What bothers me about the situation in the Oklahoma fraternity situation is that there was first zero due process in the frat being shut down, and the students expelled. That's not how a constitutional republic based on the rule of law operates. Second, while their words caused others consternation, is it reciprocal so if I'm insulted by rap lyrcis degrading woman as "Ho's" I have a reason to have somebody expelled? Finally, I read that the students signed a "code of conduct" which their actions violated. I am not an attorney or a constitutional scholar (like our president pretends to be), but I thought the principal is that you can not "sign away your rights"?

The only other time I've seen absolute authority like this with no due process is in the CA waterfowl refuges. The refuge manager by fish and game code has absolute authority on ejections from a refuge and determining when and if a hunter can return for various reasons. If its a legal issue it goes to court, but if it's unsportsmanlike behavior he can boot somebody out, no hearing or appeal.

Carry on!

Pretty sure "due process" has nothing to do with an educational institution, or a waterfowl refuge, for that matter. Being banned from anything, is not being convicted in a court of law. I know I got expelled from high school for fighting, and I didn't get "due process".

[Drycreek3189]

Just use common scense. Thats all I got.

Seems like enough said to me !

[Landrover]

Yes, we have an absolute right to free speech BUT along with that goes an absolute right to bear the consequences of your free speech.
Now, that does not address the issue of good judgment. Just like the right to bear arms, just because you can doesn't mean that you should.
The Constitution does not address stupidity.

Ding, ding, ding.............we have a winner!

Pretty sure "due process" has nothing to do with an educational institution, or a waterfowl refuge, for that matter. Being banned from anything, is not being convicted in a court of law. I know I got expelled from high school for fighting, and I didn't get "due process".

U nailed that one sir! U still have the right to sue the refuge/university/etc if you must have your say.

[Blue_bonnet]

I believe we should have the right to do these things but should have to pay the consequences for our actions. It's time for people to take account and own their actions

[Blue_bonnet]

This is what happens when there is no leadership from our perch