Taxes vs. Tithe

[clintbodie]

Don't know if this is absolutely correct but this is how I feel when it comes to tithing. I do not tithe on the gross, but I do tithe more than my net (if I'm using this term correctly). I take my net...(the actual amount deposited into the bank) then I add health ins, union dues, flex spending, taxes, etc...then tithe off of that. Basically I just don't include any retirement money (which is a significant amount between the three plans I put into). I figure that way when and if I make it to retirement, I will tithe the 10% off of that amount too. To me it would be a lot more work to tithe on all the retirement $ now, then in 30 yrs retire, and try to figure the math on what interest I've earned over 30 yrs and tithe 10% off just that amount. To me it's simpler to leave that part out now and just tithe 100% of those retirement checks when I'm drawing them.

[DCT]

Before Tax, After Tax, 10%, 5%, 100% the number does not matter to God. What matters to God is why you gave what you gave, what is in your heart when you give. God does not need your money. God wants you to give of yourself, your talents, your time, your prayers, and yes if you can your money. Any and all of it, but most importantly He wants you to do so freely out of the abundance of your Heart, not so much the abundance of your pocket book.

This

[WyoBull]

I was baptized and raised Catholic and my older brother is a Catholic priest. I have never in my life heard any priest in church preach a specific percentage that one MUST tithe. And as far as asking to see a W-2? Never has happened in my world and never will.
I give in a lot of ways besides just a dollar amount every week at mass. I have no idea what the "%" adds up to at the end of the year and I don't really care. My wife and I give what we are comfortable with and can, whether that be money, volunteer etc.
I am completely at peace with what we are doing.

[bigdaddy590]

Before Tax, After Tax, 10%, 5%, 100% the number does not matter to God. What matters to God is why you gave what you gave, what is in your heart when you give. God does not need your money. God wants you to give of yourself, your talents, your time, your prayers, and yes if you can your money. Any and all of it, but most importantly He wants you to do so freely out of the abundance of your Heart, not so much the abundance of your pocket book.

This

[SwampRabbit]

I'm sure this topic has been covered here before, but I thought I'd throw out the question anyway since money and faith seem to be two favorite topics of discussion here.

I'm curious, when folks tithe 10% (or whatever %) are they figuring that before or after taxes, and do they account for the % of their taxes that go to do the Lord's work (feeding and housing the hungry and homeless, clothing the poor, etc.) ?

The way I see it, there are really three ways a 10% tithe could be calculated.

What says the GS?

We tithe on gross, not net.

I asked my priest once when I was a much younger adult. This guy was like a father to me growing up (grew up single parent - mom was church admin.) He looked at me and said, if you have to ask, you know the answer.

If you are tithing for legalistic purpsoses (i.e. you feel it has some bearing on your salvation) then IMO you are not really doing it right; even if you are hitting above or below that "magic" 10% number. If you are in a financial position to even ask the question of how much is enough... then again, where is your heart?

[RiverRat1]

Wrong.
If you study the Word ( the Bible ) it tells us to give the first 10 percent of our harvest. Period.

What happens if taxes get raised to 91% of your income? Where do you then get the 10%?

[Cultured Hick]

.

[JackFlash]

I don't know the answer but my mom and dad have been arguing about this for years! I say go off of what you actually bring home...I view that as my harvest.

this IMO. render unto Caesar that which is caesars, rendor unto God that which is Gods.

[Limbwalker]

Before Tax, After Tax, 10%, 5%, 100% the number does not matter to God. What matters to God is why you gave what you gave, what is in your heart when you give. God does not need your money. God wants you to give of yourself, your talents, your time, your prayers, and yes if you can your money. Any and all of it, but most importantly He wants you to do so freely out of the abundance of your Heart, not so much the abundance of your pocket book.

I guess I should have added a "D) None of the above" option. ha, ha.

What the hell did you expect to hear?

Good point. 10% of Gross sounds pretty generous.

Aside from that, give what you feel is right.

Shane, I know what you're saying, but man, it seems like a double standard to use our own judgement to "do what we feel is right" when it says plain and simple "10%" in the bible. We don't see that clarity often in scripture. I know plenty of folks who wouldn't care for that being interpreted as "whatever you feel is right." I mean, why would scripture say specifically "10%" then?

John, I wouldn't get so hung up on the 10% aspect...

Yea, you're probably right. Just trying to make sense of it and formulate "what I think is right..."

Shane, I absolutely see some of my tax $ as doing the Lord's work by feeding the hungry and sheltering the poor. That's what food stamps and school lunch programs and public housing are for.

[Terrychester]

I believe that before Christ came the Law which was the Old Testement said give 10% of the first fruits of your Labors, after Christ came the Law was fulfilled and we now live under Grace. Christ told the people to render or give to Ceasar that which was his, Christ also said that we are to give whatever GOD laid on our hearts. Whether 5, 10 % whatever amount. My ex and I glad gave 15 % PRETAX. Others in the church gave 5% after tax. Under Grace their is no percentage requirement of what to give. The only requirement of what you give is cheerfully, with a glad heart.........

Whatever you decide to give whether pre tax, after tax, whether 5% 10% etc, is between you and GOD. as long as you give it cheerfully. With a glad heart.

[Limbwalker]

If you are in a financial position to even ask the question of how much is enough... then again, where is your heart?

I don't particularly care for the tone of questions such as this, as they sound very accusatory to me.

I'm asking an honest question, if one believes that the 10% is what has been used as a "guideline," then 10% of WHAT?

WyoBull, your experience and my own are very similar.

Growing up Catholic, I've never been asked (that I can recall) to give a certain %, and frankly it doesn't even come up very often. But I do know that I can never recall a "second collection" the entire time I was growing up, and now we have one every single week. I have no idea how much I should be putting into the first collection, second collection, etc. So I'm just trying to figure it out with a little help from fine men and women here.

There have been some great responses so far. Keep them coming.

[Limbwalker]

The only requirement of what you give is cheerfully, with a glad heart.........

Great thing to keep in mind. Thanks.

[TexanTiger]

No need to bow out. I just bristle at some of the concepts that are passed as theology, namely the idea of giving to God is an investment. I'll just come out and say it, I disagree with the idea of prosperity gospel.

By the simple virtue of being born an American, i'm bless beyond 99.9% of the world's population. I don't need anymore "blessings" the way its tossed around in many pulpits today.

I give today because He has already blessed me.

No, I understand and agree with you, I am not a fan of it either, I don't think im getting across what I am meaning, but for sake of this thread

answer: A

[Shane]

Some tax money does good and honorable things, but paying taxes is not at all the same as giving to the Lord. That's what I'm saying. Jesus said to give Ceasar what is his and give the Lord what is His. He didn't say to subtract what you had to give Ceasar from what you should be giving to the Lord since Ceasar is doing the Lord's work.

And the New Testament isn't as clear as the Old is on the tithe. That's why it's such a debate. I don't think that means that it's good for us to use that as a rationalization on why we don't need to give 10% though. Jesus always took things beyond what the OT said, never less. I think He never said "give 10% of gross" or anything like that because He was all about the heart. By setting a minimum, it's easy for that to be come a maximum and/or a legal requirement rather than letting your giving come from your sense of gratitude and love for the Lord. There are no limits.

Like somebody else said, if you're struggling between two amounts, then you should probably go with the higher amount. Don't let the devil rob you of an opportunity to give by talking you into holding back.

[Artos]

I watched a small family business tithe their way to closing shop & putting 200 people on the street. Their hearts were in the right place & they had a growing Bible study for the workers & their families, but they got hung up on the 10% gross. Even the pastor told them this was not advisable.

When they asked for my opinion, I remembered the tithe as being the 'first fruits' it was my feeling that they should have given cheerfully off the profits...they however were giving with a not so happy heart off the gross off the incoming receivables.

Now I know a business is not the same as personal but I think the same can apply & their is plenty of other scripture quoted about how to give being as important as what to give. Like many words in the Bible, the word tithe can have multiple meanings.

It's really no different than did God create the world in 6 days and then rested...the translations can mean a 24 hour actual day & a period of time. The bigger questions is does it really even matter if it's today's week or was it's God's time?? I'm sure there are lots of questions we will get answers to, but I really think it's more important for us to focus on the prize / kitchen pass than it is to get so wrapped up in the legalistic details.


We need to do what is in our hearts & be at peace...none of us can confirm what is right for others.