Deer age study?

[KHoes203]

This is a question I have been pondering on all season and just now posting it as I have not found much information that would be useful. Has there been any studies done that anyone knows of or anyone know any information that compares the teeth of deer that feed in areas of the state where the soil is predominantly sand as opposed to clay? For as aging goes it only makes logical since that areas with higher concentration of sand the deer would show more age on their jaws. Just a random though I have been questioning all season long.

[KHoes203]

Anyone?

[Team Roper]

I do not know but I can tell you this deer that are feed whole cotton seed year after year will show more wear. So your theory stands to reason. Back in the 80's we feed a lot of cotton seed to our sheep and goats "which the deer also partook of". Sheep and goats were ear tagged so we knew their age. We figured out that cottonseed was hard on teeth. I always send my deer teeth to www.deerage.com you would be surprised how far some people are off that think they are experts at judging age by tooth wear.

[GarGuy]

GREAT question. Here in East Tx, the browse is soft,there are leaves and straw on the ground so deer picking up acorns and corn don't get the grit. Especially deer in the DCNF where it is illegal to feed. Since trail cams have arrived, We have killed numerous deer that we had on camera for 5 or 6 years that would have chart aged 3.5 to 5.5 by teeth. These deer were definitely 7.5-10.

I posted a thread about the ancient old ten I killed this year. Live pics made almost everyone say 3.5 or 4.5. He was at least 9 and likely older.

[TexasTK]

I do not know but I can tell you this deer that are feed whole cotton seed year after year will show more wear. So your theory stands to reason. Back in the 80's we feed a lot of cotton seed to our sheep and goats "which the deer also partook of". Sheep and goats were ear tagged so we knew their age. We figured out that cottonseed was hard on teeth. I always send my deer teeth to www.deerage.com you would be surprised how far some people are off that think they are experts at judging age by tooth wear.

Never heard anyone state that cottonseed is hard on a deers teeth ?
I have been feeding it for years and have not found this to be the case.
I think the quality of browse and habitat and overall health of the deer play a significant factor in how fast their teeth wear down.

[Rwc]

GREAT question. Here in East Tx, the browse is soft,there are leaves and straw on the ground so deer picking up acorns and corn don't get the grit. Especially deer in the DCNF where it is illegal to feed. Since trail cams have arrived, We have killed numerous deer that we had on camera for 5 or 6 years that would have chart aged 3.5 to 5.5 by teeth. These deer were definitely 7.5-10.

I posted a thread about the ancient old ten I killed this year. Live pics made almost everyone say 3.5 or 4.5. He was at least 9 and likely older.

Since keeping trail cam picture inventory of deer on my grounds in Bosque County I have seen the same thing as above. 5 out of 8 bucks killed in the last 7 years we have yearly trail cam photos of and knew the age. Teeth ware on all but one showed the bucks to be 2.5 to 3.5 while yearly photos confirmed much older.

My bet is one of the south Texas ranch owners / biologist has studied this and will chime in shortly.......I hope.

Great question and good post.

Rwc

[KHoes203]

I did not know that about the cotton seed and makes since though. I hunt in llano county and we pretty much only have sand and I have watched deer for years on trail cam and in person and finally shoot some and their teeth do not seem to show the age I would expect at all. I have seen and used the comparison jaws and still don't seem right to me.

[bulltx50]

As a biologist for over 25 years I have participated in several studies involving aging deer by their teeth. The variables differ by region; but for the most part we found that deer aged out about the same in all regions. Yes a hard diet of corn only did cause more wear on the teeth, but drought had as much if not more cause and effect then any other variable. The enamel of the teeth will diminish with age no matter the environment. Bad diet, just as in humans have negative impacts on teeth and gums in whitetail deer and can cause them to appear older then they are. We found that a combination of aging on the hoof and tooth wear combined was the best way to get close to the age of the animal. Unless of course you have a photo history of the animal. We are going to find some of our research to be less reliable now that we have entered the age of instant access by cameras. I find I learn something new every time I enter the woods when it comes to the whitetail deer. In fact we have only scratched the surface on what we think we know about this animal. Good luck.

[JackFlash]

We were arguing this exact thing on my west texas pecos river deer lease last year. Part on the place say the jaw tells the true tale and the other half say no. We never settled the issue. All biologist i know of rely on the jaw and tooth wear pattern so i'll go with that.

[bulltx50]

You are right for the most part we rely on the jaw to age the deer. We try to couple that age with body make up and any knowledge or history of the deer on the ranch.

[bboswell]

Tagged

[super_dave]

Great question!
Sand vs Dirt vs pea gravel

[Chance Love]

Every year I put less and less faith in aging by jawbones. However, we will use it in conjunction with body characteristics. We mainly go off body characteristics and especially history. I have just seen way too many jaws that are not even close on known aged deer. And IMO cementum annuli testing is probably less accurate than our guesses are. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned. As far as sandy country vs. non-sandy country...in my experience there really isn't much difference. They all seem to wear just about the same.

[sotx]

Along with all that has been said above I would add that some deer favor one side of their mouth to chew on than the other. While one side of jaw ages out at 7+ the other side looks like a 4 year old. I have always been very skeptical of the tooth wear issue. I would also add that protein fed deer would show less tooth wear, am I wrong in this thinking?
A good example for me this season was a deer I named curly. He had an extra main beam on his left that curled out in front of his face. At 2 1/2 was the first time I saw the little booger, then last season at 3 1/2 he was still small in body and spindly horned, however this season when he came out he had grown significantly and gained a lot of mass and his horns were no longer white but dark chocolate. He still acted young and stupid though. I was thinking in two more years at 6 1/2 he was going to be a stud buck. Well one of our hunters shot the curly. I showed him all the pics I had and told them he had killed a 4 1/2 year old up and comer. This hunter and two others that swear by tooth age aged this buck at 7+ and saying one side was worn a lot more than the other. I never got to see the teeth. But I find it hard to believe that buck was 7 based on tooth wear.

[Archery1st]

This is a question I have been pondering on all season and just now posting it as I have not found much information that would be useful. Has there been any studies done that anyone knows of or anyone know any information that compares the teeth of deer that feed in areas of the state where the soil is predominantly sand as opposed to clay? For as aging goes it only makes logical since that areas with higher concentration of sand the deer would show more age on their jaws. Just a random though I have been questioning all season long.

Tooth Wear and Erosion is both art and science. While there is some science up to 1.5 years of age based on the number of molars and the linar crest on the first molar up to 3.5 - after that it becomes a crap shoot with even professional bilogist. I have personally seen 3 biologist age the same buck differently at Daughtry WMA 4-6 years of age. I'm pretty sure one of them was right.

I do not know but I can tell you this deer that are feed whole cotton seed year after year will show more wear. So your theory stands to reason. Back in the 80's we feed a lot of cotton seed to our sheep and goats "which the deer also partook of". Sheep and goats were ear tagged so we knew their age. We figured out that cottonseed was hard on teeth. I always send my deer teeth to www.deerage.com you would be surprised how far some people are off that think they are experts at judging age by tooth wear.

Odd you mention cotton seed. We feed a lot of cotton seed on the ranch I hunt and have fed it since the 80's...on average our deer age out very close to the original tooth wear and erosion study on remote areas fed only with cotton seed.
On areas where we have what we call protein pigs...known age bucks that live at protein feeders these deer typically tooth out at least one year younger than their known age.

GREAT question. Here in East Tx, the browse is soft,there are leaves and straw on the ground so deer picking up acorns and corn don't get the grit. Especially deer in the DCNF where it is illegal to feed. Since trail cams have arrived, We have killed numerous deer that we had on camera for 5 or 6 years that would have chart aged 3.5 to 5.5 by teeth. These deer were definitely 7.5-10.

I posted a thread about the ancient old ten I killed this year. Live pics made almost everyone say 3.5 or 4.5. He was at least 9 and likely older.

Exactly...some deer are rock eaters some aren't. Those that are - their teeth will wear faster.

Since keeping trail cam picture inventory of deer on my grounds in Bosque County I have seen the same thing as above. 5 out of 8 bucks killed in the last 7 years we have yearly trail cam photos of and knew the age. Teeth ware on all but one showed the bucks to be 2.5 to 3.5 while yearly photos confirmed much older.

My bet is one of the south Texas ranch owners / biologist has studied this and will chime in shortly.......I hope.

Great question and good post.

Rwc

Interesting...I have never seen that large of a descrepency.

Every year I put less and less faith in aging by jawbones. However, we will use it in conjunction with body characteristics. We mainly go off body characteristics and especially history. I have just seen way too many jaws that are not even close on known aged deer. And IMO cementum annuli testing is probably less accurate than our guesses are. Waste of money as far as I'm concerned. As far as sandy country vs. non-sandy country...in my experience there really isn't much difference. They all seem to wear just about the same.

Bingo - here comes the art portion. You have to take all information at your disposal to arrive at the most logical conclustion. Even then if you do not know the deer or have history I think even the most experienced will get it right 70% of the time on deer 4-7 years old.