Is a buck scored as a non-typical if it has a drop tine?

[Shooter]

My friends and I are debating about whether or not a buck is scored as a non-typical if it has a drop. I say that factor alone would not cause it to be scored non-typical, I think it would just be a deduction but they disagree. What do you guys think?

Some background on how the debate started. I just got back yesterday from a ten day (rifle hunt) in Kansas. While there I saw the biggest buck of my life. He was less than 100 yards away and not moving real fast. He looked very symetrical to me, wide with many tines (at least 14 to 16). I did not notice any kickers coming off the tines but one friend thinks his right side had some trash. The big drop tine was on the left so maybe my eyes were more focused there.

He was on land we did not have permisson to hunt, and we heard that a client of one of the local outfitters killed him not far from where we saw him. Rumor has it that he was scored as a non-typical and I have heard scores of 195 to 213. We did not get to see the buck after it was killed, but the friends I was hunting with grew up there and after talking with other locals on where it was killed and at what time my friends are convinced it is the same buck we saw.

So what do you guys think, would the drop tine alone cause it to be scored as a non-typical?

[Walker]

My understandiing is that antlers aren't themselves are not classified as typical or non-typical. They can be scored either way. Measurable points are classified as typical or non-typical.
To score a set of antler s non-typical you add up all the points. To score as typical you subtract the non typical points. Non typical points are points that don't have a matching mate on the other side.

[qzilla]

Well, the problem is that when most people talk about score they are talking about gross score and they add it up to be whatever is most.

So in reality how the P&Y and B&C system works, the drop tine would be a huge detriment to even the Gross score if you score him as a typical.

Lets say this buck scored 185 as a typical 14pt. This is without a droptine. You go through all of your measurements and this is what he adds up to before deductions. Now lets say that he has a 11" drop. His GROSS typical score would be 174. On a typical you never get to add the droptine, it is ONLY a deduct.

Most people will add it on and then subtract it off making it a ZERO which is not right.

Now where the proper determination as to whether or not it is typical or non-typical will be which way he scores the most after deductions.

So on this same deer we have 185" of gross typical score. Lets say that he has 7" of deduction other than his drop time. This is the differences in circumference, G-tines and main beams. He would be at 178". Now you deduct the 11" droptine and he is a NET Typical 167" deer. This is 2" short of the all time records book.

Lets take this same deer as a Non-typical. You use the same 185" typical frame and subtract the deducts from it giving you the same 178" you now get to add back the 11" to make him a Net Non-Typical 188" deer.

Now in this instance it does not make a hill of beans and most people would refer to the gross score of 196" non typical. Some would call him a 196" typical with a drop but, that is really wrong but, who cares I guess.

Now if the deer has more trash at all the non typical score might get him in the books.

Hope that helps?

[Shooter]

Thanks for the response guys.

qzilla,
I thought there were no deductions on a non-typical. Is this not the case?

My gut feeling based on what I saw is this deer could make the book either way, as a 170 minimum typical or a 190 minimum non-typical. He was a hoss.
By the way I forgot to mention there were two 140's with him. My heart was beating fast for hours afterwards. If only they were on the other side of the dirt road where we had permission to hunt!

[qzilla]

All deer get deductions. On the non-typicals you only deduct for symetry differences on the typical mainframe which has to be established.

Main Beam Lenght
H1-H4
G1-GX

All can have symetry deducts.

Also to clarify what Walker mentioned. A typical does not have to have all matching points. A 9pt can be a typical. If he has a G4 on one side and not on the other it is not a non-typical point. You will get to add this to the gross Typical score but, it will be a deduct when the smoke clears.

The difference is that if you shoot an 8pt with a 3" kicker, that kicker is only a deduct and never gets to be added to the typical gross score.

Hope that helps.

[JW]

And yet another reason to go Safari Club. No deductions...

[Shooter]

qzilla,

You gave some imformation I was not aware of. Thanks

[BO-N-ARO]

Close but no cigar!
P&Y regs use to state, as of 1995, if a animal had at least one measureable (1 inch) non-typical point it could entered as a non-typical, if it exceeded the minimum score.
Efective Jan 1, 2007, animals will be entered into the category (typical versus non-typical) for which its final score is greatest over the current minimum entry score requirements.
As stated above, the first step on measuring non-typical animal is to determin and measure the typical features, and yes, the non-symetry measurements are then deducted. Then the total of the non-typical points are added to obtain the final net non-typical score.
There are many subtle well defined rules for measuring animals and I have found that most scores determined at camp, the locker plant or taxidermist are not correct. Close sometimes, but .......
SCI, Roland Awards, Buckmaster for Whitetail and the others are all fine, but have thier questionable rules, on some trophies.
When Buckmasters came out with the Full Credit Scoring system, measuring everything the deer grew, it sounded like the answer........ but........ deer did not "grow" the width, so it was not measured. Many times this made the final score much less than P&Y or B&C. After a few years of hearing complaints, they started adding the width as a reference and as the "Composit" score.
"Net" score for all of the record books is the final score that is entered. There is no "Gross" score in any of the books ( I THINK??) but is normally the total of all measurements with no deducts.

[PERK]

"Non typical points are points that don't have a matching mate on the other side"

I believe that statement is not true.......

This is a quote from a B&C scoring sheet
"Abnormal points are those non-typical in location (such as points originating from a point or from the bottom or sides of the main beam) or extra points beyond the normal pattern of points."

If what walker said were true then there wouldn't be any typical 7,9,11,13, etc point deer.........Any typical point that doesn't have a matching mate on the opposite beam IS deducted, but it ISN'T a non-typical point for that reason....It's still a typical point, but it's a deduction for not being symetrical.

Non-typical would be drops, kickers, stickers, forks, splits, and whatever else they can grow that isn't normal and straight up off the beam....If it shares a common base with a typical point then ones of those points is going to be scored non-typical also.

[Walker]

"Non typical points are points that don't have a matching mate on the other side"

I believe that statement is not true.......

This is a quote from a B&C scoring sheet
"Abnormal points are those non-typical in location (such as points originating from a point or from the bottom or sides of the main beam) or extra points beyond the normal pattern of points."

If what walker said were true then there wouldn't be any typical 7,9,11,13, etc point deer.........Any typical point that doesn't have a matching mate on the opposite beam IS deducted, but it ISN'T a non-typical point for that reason....It's still a typical point, but it's a deduction for not being symetrical.

Non-typical would be drops, kickers, stickers, forks, splits, and whatever else they can grow that isn't normal and straight up off the beam....If it shares a common base with a typical point then ones of those points is going to be scored non-typical also.

Mis-matched "normal" points also count for a non-typical score, not just abnormal points.

[qzilla]

Mis-matched "normal" points also count for a non-typical score, not just abnormal points.

I am not sure what you mean here? If a deer has a G4 on one side and not one on the other then it will score the same for a typical or non typical. You get to add it to the gross typical frame score and then it is deducted to get a net score, this is true on both typical and non typical antlers.

The only difference in scoring the 2 animals is what you do with abnormal points. Any "G" tine cannot be a an abnormal even if it is a typical 2 X 8 rack.

[Walker]

Yes, I believe you are right QZILLA, I just looked at a scoring sheet.

[PERK]

so that would mean that i am right also?