Spygate

[iamntxhunter]

Good post Shane.

[iamntxhunter]

Good post Dale.

[mikemorvan]

The old Steppenwolf song "Monster" comes to mind....

[Rwc]

We live in scary times.

I pray for a bright outcome for my children, but the way the system is headed, sure paints a dim picture.

Rwc

[manwitaplan]

Good post Shane.

X2.

It seems some of these post have a little bit of. "M2" in them.

[bigbad243]

bowhuntntxn, I have thought of that very thing regarding Wal-mart and other stores. That is exactly the point of the little frequent shopper cards. It is not for you to get a discount it is to track purchases and spending habits for a paticular area. And yes that info could be used against you in the right situations in the wrong hands.

I will have to agree with you there is not a perfect way to screen people coming in. And besides there will always be the person that has remained under the radar and is sqeaky clean but up to no good. However I do believe two things here:

1) Regardless of what we do there is some chance I or a loved one might be a victim of terrorism.

2) If we give the Government powers that are not Constitutional on the promise that it will not be used against us but against the bad guy, there is 100% chance it will end up bad. I believe there is a 100% chance some one in government will abuse it. You will not be able to put the cat back in the bag. And future generations will be the poorer for it all for some temporary safety now.

But those programs are voluntary. What the government is doing is not. Apples and oranges...

[bowhuntntxn]

But those programs are voluntary. What the government is doing is not. Apples and oranges...

Ever pay for anything at wal mart with a credit or debit card? Nothing about their logistics and data analysis is voluntary. Believe me.

[Dale]

But those programs are voluntary. What the government is doing is not. Apples and oranges...

I think you are not quite getting it.

Yes, they are voluntary and Wal Mart, Kroger etc.... say the information is private and it probably is, unless the Government decides to use the Patriot Act to get it.

And I think using a phone or e-mail is voluntary also, no one can force you to own or use a phone right?

Oh, and if I remember right Verizon told me my info and calls are private and secure but it did not quite work out that way did it.

The reference to the frequent shopper card related to the collecting of private data and how the government could use it against you if we allow them to. For example: "how much beer does Joe buy", "Lets see if Bob has bought tobacco before we decide where to place him on the list for that medical procedure."

We as a nation really messed up when we gave up some our rights with the passing of the Patriot Act. Please folks lets face it not only can happen here in this country it is happening.

This is not about political party either, both parties have a hand in this. We must, as a nation of Free People with God given Rights not Government given, stand up and end this. They can only do to us what we allow.

Gaining a time safety, that really doesn't exist by the way, is never worth giving up your rights for. And that is wether it pertains to Local, State or Federal government, the Mob, the terrorist, the drug cartel, or the local thug on the street. When you do you are beaten. And not just you, but future generations as well.

[Digitalhunter]

There was a short bit of coverage on the news within the past couple of days showing a congressional grilling of then NSA director, Gen. Lew Allen concerning collection of phone communications, etc; of American citizens.

The hearing took place in 1975. Church Committee's Investigation of NSA.
This has been in the works for a long time.