Biblical Question...

[Tuffbroadhead]

You always hear that the Lord gave men free will, where in the bible does it state that? And the second part is if he did give us free will, were would preordained circumstances fall into it?



There is a pitfall in those two questions, if life is preordained.......and life is in motion according to gods plans, then free will would be a falsehood..and I know more than one person that this creates a stumbling block for the development of FAITH which is a key element in belief of a higher power.

PLEASE, PLEASE KEEP THIS POLITE AND EDUCATIONAL...

[El Coyote]

John 16:33 says You shall have suffering. Not you might have suffering or you can have suffering, only that you Will have suffering. To have this suffering God allows us free choice. Read the Book of Job and see how God allowed Job to suffer, then reward his faithfulness. That's about all I got.

[Crazy Horse]

Proverbs 16:9
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

Joshua 24:15
And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”


John 7:17
If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Ephesians 2:2
In which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

Galatians 5:16-17
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

2 Timothy 2:26
And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Leviticus 22:17-19
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to Aaron and his sons and all the people of Israel and say to them, When any one of the house of Israel or of the sojourners in Israel presents a burnt offering as his offering, for any of their vows or freewill offerings that they offer to the Lord, if it is to be accepted for you it shall be a male without blemish, of the bulls or the sheep or the goats.

Freewill and God’s sovereignty are not opposed to each other but run parallel with one other. Imagine that you are a slave on a ship. You are chained to the deck below. It is determined that you row for the captain of this ship. You have no choice but to be chained to this ship. This is like God’s sovereignty. But even here you have freewill. You are free to row or not to row. If you do not row you choose to receive beatings by the quartermaster, but if you row, you choose not to be beaten. You might even chose to break free of the ship by escaping your chains, but God’s sovereignty is not diminished.

God’s sovereignty does not diminish man’s freewill. God never twists anyone’s arm into heaven. God is all knowing of the past, present, and future. He alone knows what we will do. One example is that there are said to be over 600 prophecies in the Bible regarding Jesus Christ. God alone is able to know the future and the means to bring about what He desires to come to pass. You have freewill to either reject Him or to accept this saving grace. Either way, He knew it, He planned it, He purposed it, He desired it, and He predestined the very thing that you are now reading.

[TxMedic]

God’s sovereignty does not diminish man’s freewill. God never twists anyone’s arm into heaven. God is all knowing of the past, present, and future. He alone knows what we will do. One example is that there are said to be over 600 prophecies in the Bible regarding Jesus Christ. God alone is able to know the future and the means to bring about what He desires to come to pass. You have freewill to either reject Him or to accept this saving grace. Either way, He knew it, He planned it, He purposed it, He desired it, and He predestined the very thing that you are now reading.

^^Very well said and explained. Thank you!

[TXBlueEyes]

I believe God did not predestine all things. Man has his own free will. Some things like Jesus's death on the cross and resurrection were predestined by God because he saw the sinful nature of man. We have to turn from our sins and accept the gift we have been given. This proves that man has his own free will.
I do believe God knows ahead of time all things that are to happen because he is all knowing. He allows things to happen but does not cause all things to happen.

Jesus told the Pharises to turn from their hypocrisy and wicked ways..
In Matthew 23:37, He tells the people of Jerusalem that he wants to gather them up yet they are not willing....
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

That is just one example...There are others that show man has his own free will.

[VorTexan]

God did not create robots to love Him, it would make no sense (but He could have).


We would not be called to witness if it had NO meaning.

Love does not exist without choice niether would good vs. evil.

And

"Father, not MY will but thine be done". Did Christ have a choice? Would His love for us be the same if He didn't?

What we as humans have a hard time understanding is God's ALL knowing vs. our limited knowledge. Yes He knows what each of us will do because He know past, present, future but the CHOICE is still ours to make or the rest is meaningless in life.

[Shane]

Good comments. Like most arguments over Biblical interpretations, I believe that the free will/predestination argument happens when people choose one side of the same coin and they argue over what the coin is called. One guy says, "Look! It's obviously heads!" The other guy says, "No, you're wrong. It's tails."

Meanwhile, God is sitting back saying, "Guys. Guys! It's BOTH. Let's call it a quarter."

God clearly gives us free will to choose whether we serve Him and obey Him or not. It started the day He put Adam in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2 says:

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

God gave Adam everything good, and He also gave Adam a choice. Now, did God know what choice Adam would eventually make? I'm certain that He did. He's all-knowing. He is not constrained by time and space. He knew. He already knew what He was going to do to rescue mankind from our sin too. The fact that God foreknew and had a plan predestined for us doesn't take away our own individual free will.

[CrossEyed]

I think it is often miss interpreted about pre destination. The Bible doesn't say being saved "puts" your name in the lambs book of life, it says it "keeps" it there. God predestined for everyone to be saved. We are put on this earth to have a relationship with God. God already had a Son, but he wanted a family. You have free will up to your last breath to choose him as your Lord and Savior. Think of it this way. I have kids and I can "make" them give me a hug and "make" them tell me they love me. I have the authority and power over them to "make" them do it weather they want to or not. But how much sweeter is it when they come up out of nowhere and love on you and tell you they love you because they want too. That is exactly the way God the Father is. He wants it to be your choose to love him he does not and will not force you.
But once you are dead and your spirit comes up to judgment and your choose to forsake him and your name is not in the book. Thats when he will say "Get away for I never knew you." The knowledge that you choose to live without accepting the Lord and that you should have been in Heaven with him is the true punishment of hell.

[Buck-N-Rut]

Very good read.

[Crazy Horse]

I think it is often miss interpreted about pre destination. The Bible doesn't say being saved "puts" your name in the lambs book of life, it says it "keeps" it there. God predestined for everyone to be saved. We are put on this earth to have a relationship with God. God already had a Son, but he wanted a family. You have free will up to your last breath to choose him as your Lord and Savior. Think of it this way. I have kids and I can "make" them give me a hug and "make" them tell me they love me. I have the authority and power over them to "make" them do it weather they want to or not. But how much sweeter is it when they come up out of nowhere and love on you and tell you they love you because they want too. That is exactly the way God the Father is. He wants it to be your choose to love him he does not and will not force you.
But once you are dead and your spirit comes up to judgment and your choose to forsake him and your name is not in the book. Thats when he will say "Get away for I never knew you." The knowledge that you choose to live without accepting the Lord and that you should have been in Heaven with him is the true punishment of hell.

very nice...

[Tuffbroadhead]

Leviticus 22:17-19[/B]
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to Aaron and his sons and all the people of Israel and say to them, When any one of the house of Israel or of the sojourners in Israel presents a burnt offering as his offering, for any of their vows or freewill offerings that they offer to the Lord, if it is to be accepted for you it shall be a male without blemish, of the bulls or the sheep or the goats.



.

From what I remember and it was some time ago when I studied these teachings....he was asking for "animal sacrifice" correct??

[sling shot]

Great explanation CrossEyed.

[sling shot]

In Leviticus you will find the offerings and how they are to be prepared.

[1RutNBuc]

Good stuff. Thank you for raising the question! Very good read!

[jmeghunts]

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