Buying a hunting ranch and leasing questions...

[EZ-10RANCH]

I would do a seasonal/year lease.

If you can get the right people it will turn out a lot better, plus if you day lease you are going to be killing a lot of animals off the place depending on how many you run.

I am in the same situation and will be doing a yearly lease to help offset some of the costs. I will be able to pick the people on it, and i will know that they will follow my management rules.

You will hope they will follow your rules. Been there, done that.

To the OP, look at some outfitters in the area. A lot of times they or some other outfitter that they know is looking for more land to "hopefully" manage and sell hunts off of. If you narrow down a few always ask for references. Good luck, ranch ownership is a continuos job but can be rewarding.

[Lawhorn]

Lets say you buy a thousand acres in south Tx. Right now you can expect to pay about 2.5 million for it. Lets say you decide to lease it. Lets say you get top dollar for your lease, say 17 bucks an acre. Bottom line your lease revenue wont even pay one monthly note on it. And if you decide to run hunts on it, I guarantee your revenue wont even cover your feed cost. Much less upkeep, improvements, etc. Does not matter if its 100 acres or 10,000, no way leasing, running hunts, running cattle, will ever even come close to help paying a single nickel towards the land. The only way would be to buy land, hit oil, and sit back and collect checks. And the odds of even getting minerals these days is astronomical. Good luck on your endeavor, I am only trying to help you realize that a ranch is a money pit, and in no way, a way to make a buck, good luck!

Know going into this that the land will most likely never pay for itself, barring a productive oil and gas lease. Do not expect for your deer or exotic herd to pay the bills. The amount of time, labor and money required to own and operate a ranch is almost hard to fathom. I can tell you the feed bills and improvement costs will pile up quick if you want to run a quality operation. Over the years we've learned that there is more to a piece of land than just the deer it offers. Many ranches are turning to bird watching and ranch tours as a new source of income, as these do not require much effort and they do not deplete the ranch in any way. Ideas like these will allow you to maximize the amount of dollars the ranch can produce for you, so always think outside the box. Good luck with your purchase and enjoy your new piece. God bless.

[Johnny Dangerr]

The good thing about getting a good group to lease it is they will do the protein stations and water and corn feeders and fence repair and chainsaw work - etc - etc...

[Sippy]

The good thing about getting a good group to lease it is they will do the protein stations and water and corn feeders and fence repair and chainsaw work - etc - etc...

Yep

Hopefully

[Deer716]

You can look at a feed bill of 30-50 thousand a year on a good ranch. Ranch I help out on pays that and its 1000 acres high fence, Thats protein and corn.

[ducks-and-bucks]

We want a place of our own for pleasure, hunting and fishing. The wife likes to garden, and I told her I want a catfish garden. (a stock tank full of fish). By all means I know the work that goes a long with it all. I've lived my whole life out on our family ranch.

200 acres is a lot to keep up with if you really take care of the place. Everyone defines a "Ranch" differently. For us I want 400-800 acres. Thats plenty for one person to hunt, wife to go out and shoot her deer she picks out from game cam pics, then take some management deer outta the rut-ring. A huge place would be great, but in todays economy a man that works hard can hardly buy 50 acres. There is nothing cheap about it, and there is always more that needs to be done. I understand it all.

Our family ranch has gotten to the point where there is too many family members hunting on it now that all the kids are getting old enough. I seem to be the only one that understands that there are too many people hunting it, and not enough deer. Then every place around us is small and shoots deer, and has their friends out to shoot deer like they are abundant. Basically the area is getting shot out and no one see's it but me. Then they sit and wonder what happened. TPWD did us a the "huge favor" of giving us and every other small place around us 20+ doe permits a year for about 3 years, and everyone used em all up. TPWD wanted 1 deer for every 20 acres. We went from 5 different blinds with 10-20 deer at each at a time- to now where you can sit 5 people in 5 different blinds and no one see's a thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I like a little more of a healthy, target rich environment.

So needless to say we don't want to have to deal with not seeing a deer anymore at this place. Just decided to buy our own.

[RealTreeHunter]

We want a place of our own for pleasure, hunting and fishing. The wife likes to garden, and I told her I want a catfish garden. (a stock tank full of fish). By all means I know the work that goes a long with it all. I've lived my whole life out on our family ranch.

200 acres is a lot to keep up with if you really take care of the place. Everyone defines a "Ranch" differently. For us I want 400-800 acres. Thats plenty for one person to hunt, wife to go out and shoot her deer she picks out from game cam pics, then take some management deer outta the rut-ring. A huge place would be great, but in todays economy a man that works hard can hardly buy 50 acres. There is nothing cheap about it, and there is always more that needs to be done. I understand it all.

Our family ranch has gotten to the point where there is too many family members hunting on it now that all the kids are getting old enough. I seem to be the only one that understands that there are too many people hunting it, and not enough deer. Then every place around us is small and shoots deer, and has their friends out to shoot deer like they are abundant. Basically the area is getting shot out and no one see's it but me. Then they sit and wonder what happened. TPWD did us a the "huge favor" of giving us and every other small place around us 20+ doe permits a year for about 3 years, and everyone used em all up. TPWD wanted 1 deer for every 20 acres. We went from 5 different blinds with 10-20 deer at each at a time- to now where you can sit 5 people in 5 different blinds and no one see's a thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I like a little more of a healthy, target rich environment.

So needless to say we don't want to have to deal with not seeing a deer anymore at this place. Just decided to buy our own.

Well that turned quick. Sounds like you want to buy a new ranch bc family and TPWD "ruined" your current family ranch. Might want to spend a little more time on what you have (and don't have a payment on) rather than spend a million bucks on something that could very easily turn into the same thing in one year, ten years, etc...

[Nova]

We want a place of our own for pleasure, hunting and fishing. The wife likes to garden, and I told her I want a catfish garden. (a stock tank full of fish). By all means I know the work that goes a long with it all. I've lived my whole life out on our family ranch.

200 acres is a lot to keep up with if you really take care of the place. Everyone defines a "Ranch" differently. For us I want 400-800 acres. Thats plenty for one person to hunt, wife to go out and shoot her deer she picks out from game cam pics, then take some management deer outta the rut-ring. A huge place would be great, but in todays economy a man that works hard can hardly buy 50 acres. There is nothing cheap about it, and there is always more that needs to be done. I understand it all.

Our family ranch has gotten to the point where there is too many family members hunting on it now that all the kids are getting old enough. I seem to be the only one that understands that there are too many people hunting it, and not enough deer. Then every place around us is small and shoots deer, and has their friends out to shoot deer like they are abundant. Basically the area is getting shot out and no one see's it but me. Then they sit and wonder what happened. TPWD did us a the "huge favor" of giving us and every other small place around us 20+ doe permits a year for about 3 years, and everyone used em all up. TPWD wanted 1 deer for every 20 acres. We went from 5 different blinds with 10-20 deer at each at a time- to now where you can sit 5 people in 5 different blinds and no one see's a thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I like a little more of a healthy, target rich environment.

So needless to say we don't want to have to deal with not seeing a deer anymore at this place. Just decided to buy our own.

Seeing 10-20 deer at 5 different blinds isn't always great for the habitat.

[az2tx]

Lets say you buy a thousand acres in south Tx. Right now you can expect to pay about 2.5 million for it. Lets say you decide to lease it. Lets say you get top dollar for your lease, say 17 bucks an acre. Bottom line your lease revenue wont even pay one monthly note on it. And if you decide to run hunts on it, I guarantee your revenue wont even cover your feed cost. Much less upkeep, improvements, etc. Does not matter if its 100 acres or 10,000, no way leasing, running hunts, running cattle, will ever even come close to help paying a single nickel towards the land. The only way would be to buy land, hit oil, and sit back and collect checks. And the odds of even getting minerals these days is astronomical. Good luck on your endeavor, I am only trying to help you realize that a ranch is a money pit, and in no way, a way to make a buck, good luck!

It will also make you one of those greedy landowners that charge to much for hunts or a lease, even though it cost you money every year

[Mister Bubba's bulletman]

.....that there are too many people hunting it, and not enough deer. Then every place around us is small and shoots deer, and has their friends out to shoot deer like they are abundant. Basically the area is getting shot out

We're there right now. Can't keep your neighbors from shooting all the deer.
Very frustrating.

[Capt.Bryan]

I too have been thinking this same idea out. I believe what is needed is a property that has 1/3-1/2 of it available for agricultural use so you can lease part of it to a farmer. Then your farmer will bring the deer into your property for you and your family. Also everyone first assumes that deer hunters will be who you lease it too. But if you can sell day hunts for dove hunters you can fit alot of dove hunters on 600 acres a few times during dove season. 250.00 x 50 hunters is 12,500.00 a weekend during dove season. I used to work with an outfitter and opening weekend of dove season he charged 150.00 a day and we would have 200 plus hunters show up on opening day. And they all killed birds and would come back almost every weekend during dove season. They usually put them all around the edges of the fields and they hunted about a 300 acre place. So there are ways to bring in income to assist in paying it off. The place we hunt now is all low fenced, 650 acres of which 250 acres is winter wheat crop. The owner leases field to farmer, land to rancher that can have no more then 30 head of cattle, then leases hunting to my family for 12,000.00 a year. The winter wheat really brings the deer in during the later part of season.

[Chance Love]

Lot of good advice here! I wouldn't look at leasing or selling hunts as a way to "pay for the place", but it can HELP pay some of the bills.

And when you do get ready to buy, give me a shout. I can certainly help you find what you are looking for.

[drewjunr]

We are kicking off the leasers off my grandmothers property, for hay and cattle approx 200 acres. We are tired of them not paying on time, leaving the strings from the round bales scattered throughout the property and their cattle dying (10 this year) from getting tangled in fences to unknown reasons.

They never had hunting rights to the property, my dad and I are the only ones that hunt it. This year we found a small young deer skin (sitting for a week, dried out bones scattered) and a cut off leg (after the current leasers received the letter) we can't prove it was them, a coyote or a poacher so we are locking the blinds with padlocks and keeping an extra eye out.

It has 80 acres of hay meadow, in a good year we should break even and if a poor year anything will help, the rest will be made up as a deer lease payment by my dad and I.

If I had the money to purchase my own property 150-200 acres I would do so would love to get farther away from the city and get it set up to retire in another 20 years...to dream the dream.

[LosCuernosRanch]

We don't lease, we sell package hunts. Easier to manage what is shot and much more control over your land. From my experience some folks who lease feel they own the land, some treat it well as if their own, others think they paid for it they can do what they want, drive where they want, leave trash where they want, and manage how they want. Pricing is a big issue, most people want a deal and are not willing to pay for a quality hunt. I do all the feed, maintenance, marketing, and guiding. Long story short since I inherited the ranch in 08 profits from hunting are up. My hunting pays for the feed, any supplies, and maybe two months of my salary. We are also able to bring in upgrades every year, as in blinds, improvements to the guest lodge, and large bulk feeders with feed paid for on an annual basis. My prices are not expensive and are below the market in my area, still some think it is over priced. Meat hunts are an easy sell. Buck hunts are tough, everyone wants a 200 class animal for a doe hunt price. For us a 160 to 140 are awesome free chase animals, 120 to 140 are very common. I would say if you own the land you are already on, take the time and invest in it. It will not give returns right away but it will sure pay off if you are willing to stick with it and invest in it. Manage manage manage is the key, you have got to know when it is better for the land not shoot than make a $. Sometimes you have to make a smaller $ to get shooters so you can meet your management goals. It will be give and take at first but you can pull it off if you are willing to take the time. By time I mean years. Looking back at your last post, that is going to be a tough deal if you have family coming and going and no one managing the land. For us it is all on me. I have a huge family, lots of hunters, Uncles and cousins. I have final say, no one comes and goes with out me knowing and approving any hunting and even then I tell them where and what to shoot. Paying hunters are different of course, I put them on the best and try and get them value for their dollar. My ranch is just under 4k acres, I think 800 acres would be awesome for one family and easy to manage and produce great animals. Good luck to you!

[Ag 96]

I'm in the same boat. I'm currently looking at buying between 500-1000 acres due to tax reasons on some non-productive property that we are selling. If I don't exchange the property we're selling, I'm staring a 35% corporate tax cut right in the face before I pay my taxes on the dividend (at least another 20% cut). So, I've decided to find a place to buy that'll let me do a little hunting/ranching and run it out.

If it weren't for the tax issue, however, I wouldn't buy it. I figure that, even in today's less than stellar market, I could make somewhere between 100k a year off that same money through various investments. In that scenario the ranch deal just doesn't pay. I could get an awesome lease and still have money to reinvest. If I wanted to go elk or mule deer hunting, I could do that too.

With the ranch I know I'll end up spending money on fences, tractors, taxes, insurance etc. However, I just can't bring myself to pay the government 50% or more on that money. As a result, I have no illusions that I'll lose some money on the ranch while I hold it. I'm not going to worry about maximizing my return, I just want to show a little ag income (even if it's ultimately a loss) and then sell it in a few years (hopefully in a better tax environment).

I'm sure that all of my cousins, uncles, and friends will be quite happy with this decision!