Today's Bullets

[tgil]

For the gun gurus, are today's cartridges not what they used to be? Seeing Austin Kade's thread made me have to ask this question.
A buddy told me over the weekend about a deer his wife shot (.270) with no exit. He was all excited and said he'd never seen that.
My daughter's first deer last year, had the same outcome with a .223. We saved the piece of lead thinking it was pretty cool. When I got home, I realized the same thing had happened on my wife's first, the year before using a .243.
I don't know that I've ever had it happen on a deer I've shot with the same
.243 using the same rounds. All of these bullets were different calibers, obviously, and different type and brands too. Makes me wonder if bullets have become cheesy just like everything else made these days?

[Tommyh]

did they all tell you what bullet they were using?

[tvc184]

For the gun gurus, are today's cartridges not what they used to be? Seeing Austin Kade's thread made me have to ask this question.
A buddy told me over the weekend about a deer his wife shot (.270) with no exit. He was all excited and said he'd never seen that.
My daughter's first deer last year, had the same outcome with a .223. We saved the piece of lead thinking it was pretty cool. When I got home, I realized the same thing had happened on my wife's first, the year before using a .243.
I don't know that I've ever had it happen on a deer I've shot with the same
.243 using the same rounds. All of these bullets were different calibers, obviously, and different type and brands too. Makes me wonder if bullets have become cheesy just like everything else made these days?

There are shallow penetrating rounds that almost explode, rapidly expanding rounds that get a good mushroom but won't generally exit and rounds that will punch all the way through almost any animal even after hitting bone.

I don't think that rounds are inferior to what they were but there are certainly a wider range of performances. I believe that a lot of people see names like ballistic tip and assume that it is a great round... and it might be for what it was designed for but some people are shocked when they don't get an exit wound when the round was never designed for that reason.

[simsknives]

If the round is going all the way through the animal then all of its energy isn't being used. The rapid expansion and fragmentation of todays bullets is like a shotgun going off at the point of impact. While you wont have as many pass through it will do a lot more internal damage and you wont need to tract your animal.

[JeffJ]

I think the issue lies with the insane amount of different loads and bullets available for each caliber, especially the 270 and below loads. People simply dont know what they are buying.

[J-Mac]

There are shallow penetrating rounds that almost explode, rapidly expanding rounds that get a good mushroom but won't generally exit and rounds that will punch all the way through almost any animal even after hitting bone.

I don't think that rounds are inferior to what they were but there are certainly a wider range of performances. I believe that a lot of people see names like ballistic tip and assume that it is a great round... and it might be for what it was designed for but some people are shocked when they don't get an exit wound when the round was never designed for that reason.

This.
Lots of bullets out there that are designed for various uses. Years ago selections were somewhat limited to hunting and target. Now you've got match, varmint, small, medium, large, dangerous game etc. Just grabbing a box off the shelf w/o proper research can lead to disappointment later.

[muddyfuzzy]

as we know in a conventional design the lead alloy core is bonded to the jacket. the jacket will become thicker as we travel from the tip to full bore diameter. the primary function of this design in most cases is to control expansion once contact is made. with that being said not all design are equal and certainly perform differently at different impact velocities.
most varmit bullets are designed for rapid expansion, conversely bullets designed for heavier game have thicker jackets to control expansion, retain weight and promote penetration.
even is using the proper type of bullet impact distance should not be over looked. case in point: years ago i developed a handload for the .300 winmag using a 180 sierra game king. these bullets were money on paper, i mean holding .500" groups at 100 yds. my buddy using them shot a sow at about 45 yds and rolled her up (i was video taping the hunt) when much to our suprised she got up and ran off. upon inspection at the scene of the crime little to no blood was found and after further slow motion review of the tape proper shot placement was confirmed. we went back to track and eventually found the sow 200 yds. away from where she was shot. when we looked at her proper shot placement was again confirmed but there was only about 3" of penetration. this was a classic example of a bullet slipping its jacket. the term refers to the structural design of the bullet not being able to control expansion at high velocities. upon impact there is insufficient jacket thickness to regulate expasion and is a common problem out of quick cartridges that impact at close distances.
we clearly see evidence of this when we look at say a 30-30 and how well it performs at close range shots. compared to the .300 winmag it is a full 1000 fps slower and really shines because it's impact velocities are comparable to shooting distances. at the reduced velocity the bullet can function as it was designed to where as the optimal distances for the .300 are from 200+, the bullet simply has to slow down to work properly.

[Shane]

I used to load Sierra Game Kings all the time. The last time I loaded some up 3 or 4 years ago, they sucked. They just fell apart in a deer. No exit. Empty copper jacket with fragments of lead everywhere. I pulled them all and replaced them with Nosler Partitions. I've not used any Game Kings since. I don't know if I had a bad box or if they just started using crap metals in all of them.

[muddyfuzzy]

I used to load Sierra Game Kings all the time. The last time I loaded some up 3 or 4 years ago, they sucked. They just fell apart in a deer. No exit. Empty copper jacket with fragments of lead everywhere. I pulled them all and replaced them with Nosler Partitions. I've not used any Game Kings since. I don't know if I had a bad box or if they just started using crap metals in all of them.

no they are good bullets, they just have to get down to 2500 fps and below on impact to work properly in high powered magnums. the nosler has a much thicker jacket and performs better in a broader scope of impact velocities. the trade off is they don't fly as well when you get way down range. everything is about trade-offs so you have to see exactly what you MAY exp. in a hunting situation not what you think you will get.

[SaltwaterSlick]

I used to load Sierra Game Kings all the time. The last time I loaded some up 3 or 4 years ago, they sucked. They just fell apart in a deer. No exit. Empty copper jacket with fragments of lead everywhere. I pulled them all and replaced them with Nosler Partitions. I've not used any Game Kings since. I don't know if I had a bad box or if they just started using crap metals in all of them.

Shane, I switched from Sierra Spitzers to Hornady Spire Points for the same reason... The Hornadys held together better as their jackets are tougher/thicker. I still like Sierra for pistols however...

[Rather_B_Fishin]

If the round is going all the way through the animal then all of its energy isn't being used. The rapid expansion and fragmentation of todays bullets is like a shotgun going off at the point of impact. While you wont have as many pass through it will do a lot more internal damage and you wont need to tract your animal.

That is an old myth, the all copper bullets destroyed that myth many years ago. I don't care if my bullet exits at the same energy as it entered as long at the hydroshok is the size of a basket ball that's what's gonna tear up tissue. Go to barns website and watch there bullets in slow motion being shot into gel. I wouldn't shot them on whitetail at 100 yrds out of my 300 win mag but for elk, bear, and moose you bet. I'll even try some out of my 7-08 and see how well they shoot. Most of the time bullets if you don't get a pass thru it's because your bullet is traveling to fast and expands to fast.

[westtexducks]

There are shallow penetrating rounds that almost explode, rapidly expanding rounds that get a good mushroom but won't generally exit and rounds that will punch all the way through almost any animal even after hitting bone.

I don't think that rounds are inferior to what they were but there are certainly a wider range of performances. I believe that a lot of people see names like ballistic tip and assume that it is a great round... and it might be for what it was designed for but some people are shocked when they don't get an exit wound when the round was never designed for that reason.

This^^^ most people don't realize what they are shooting and are surprised when the bullet does its job but is not what the user was intending when they bought the ammo. But at the same time each shot has to be treated differently I have had several pass throughs with 130gr corelokts out of my .270 but I have had a couple that were at just the right angle to just get to the outer layer of skin and go around the body under the skin. Also there is several types of ballistic tips, varmint and big game. The varmints explode the big game are just a tipped cup and core bullet.

[TexMax]

Sub'd for subsequent knockdown power and energy dump data

[xman59]

For the gun gurus, are today's cartridges not what they used to be? Seeing Austin Kade's thread made me have to ask this question.
A buddy told me over the weekend about a deer his wife shot (.270) with no exit. He was all excited and said he'd never seen that.
My daughter's first deer last year, had the same outcome with a .223. We saved the piece of lead thinking it was pretty cool. When I got home, I realized the same thing had happened on my wife's first, the year before using a .243.
I don't know that I've ever had it happen on a deer I've shot with the same
.243 using the same rounds. All of these bullets were different calibers, obviously, and different type and brands too. Makes me wonder if bullets have become cheesy just like everything else made these days?

these specific three rounds have been blowing apart for many years,, high velocity and light weight bullets tend to work on each other real hard...you can get bullets in these calibers that hold together better , but they generally cost a bit more than the average stuff ...

[txpitdog]

I used to load Sierra Game Kings all the time. The last time I loaded some up 3 or 4 years ago, they sucked. They just fell apart in a deer. No exit. Empty copper jacket with fragments of lead everywhere. I pulled them all and replaced them with Nosler Partitions. I've not used any Game Kings since. I don't know if I had a bad box or if they just started using crap metals in all of them.

I'm always surprised when folks complain about bullets not holding together on game that were KILLED by the bullet being complained about. I shot nilgai this summer with 300gr Sierra Game Kings from my 375 Ruger. Both cores separated from the jackets. Both nilgai died almost immediately. Apparently this isn't good enough. Sheesh.