AR build questions and .300 blackout our 5.56??

[BigTex.308]

Trying to decide between .300 blackout or 5.56x45.

I'd like to suppress it. If I get 5.56 would a suppressor even do anything? I'm kinda leaning towards .300 blackout due to the fact of the ability to shoot subsonic ammo. And I'd assume it'd suppress fairly decently.

I'll have guns chambered in both eventually but for now It's just deciding on which one to start with. Any advice on caliber selection is appreciated......Pros & cons of both.


Now for the build..............

I've never done this before so I'm kinda looking for a dummies guide What do you look for in a decent lower? Upper? are all AR parts pretty much interchangeable or will only certain manufacturers work together? Where's the best place to buy the parts?

Pretty much any and all advice is appreciated.




Thanks in advance




Ike

[jck]

Following!

[misn_tx]

You're right on about 556 not being a good caliber to suppress, shooting standard rounds still break sound barrier or subs are pretty much a heavy 22.

As for 30 cal in 300blk or 308, it's a fun round to shoot subs with since the impact of the round can sound louder than the shot itself.

Keep in mind, a single shot or bolt action optimizes the sound reduction and simis like ar's will sound louder due to the action of the bcg and gasses excaping the breach.

30 cal in any flavor is smile inducing in subs and hyper velocity and a drastic change over unsuppressed standard rounds, but for the most part it is a plinking round unless you are serious about reloading. Given the 30 cal round is designed to expand at high velocity, sub rounds do little more than poke 30cal holes in animals. 220gr bullets loaded properly and put in the lungs of a whitetail produce less that desirable results.

It's getting light, on the stand right now, signing off until later, I'd be happy to answer any questions or let ya check out the gear to help your decision.

[Daniel75]

^^^ not exactly correct IMO about .30 caliber rounds poking holes in animals. The .300 Blackout did a number on this hog out of a Daniel Defense DDM4. If I was going to get an AR right now, I'd get it in .300 Blackout. It kicks just like a .223/5.56 and it's bullets are designed to perform at those particular velocities.

[Javelin]

IMO the best caliber in an AR right now is 6.8spc. It shoots a 85 to 140 grain bullet in 270 cal and the 115 grain is moving around 2700 fps from a 16 inch barrel. It can easily get the job done on deer to 300 yards and possibly 400 depending on shooter. The 300 blackout falls on its face after 200 or so due to it being heavy and slow. Last night we shot a doe at 100 yards with a 120 grain sst in 6.8. Blew both shoulders out to where they could not be salvaged deer ran 20 yards

[misn_tx]

Austin kade, glad to hear your round performed well on your hog. Tell me what bullet you were using, I'm always up for trying a new hand load but given the base component of the projectile is the same .30 for blackout as any other, there is nothing special or unique about it other than being loaded into a different case.

To clarify my statement, the poking holes involved a 220gr round nose at subsonic velocities. Subsonic expanding 30cal projectiles are available from companies such as ssl, outlaw state and others but they run ~$1.5 a projectile and thats not considering the other components to make a shootable cartridge.

As for most blackout commercial rounds, they aren't loaded for 1080fps or less and since you're not shooting a rig with a can I doubt you were shooting subs, and that would explain your misunderstanding my point about .30cal subsonic terminal performance.

[Mike D]

Depends on what you want to use it for.

IMO the Blackout is more versatile in the fact that it can shoot bullets from 110 grains to 240 grains, and offer supersonic and subsonic capabilities.

The 5.56 and the 6.8 SPC are not as favorable for shooting suppressed. Yes a suppressor makes a huge difference in a 5.56 as it is hearing safe when suppressed; not even close without and especially not on an SBR. And no, the 300 Blackout does not "fall on it's face" 200 yards.

Rounds like the AMax or SMKs WILL NOT expand at subsonic velocities. Yeah, it's going to do the job with head shots as shown in the pic above but so will a 22LR so.....

Anyway, if you want to hunt and do shoulder shots with subs, then you will have to pony up $$$ to buy the proper ammo.

As to the build, yes most if not all parts will work, but they are not all the same in regards to quality. If I were going to build, I would get Palmetto State Armory stuff.

Since you are going to go suppressed at some point, I would just go ahead and build an SBR. The 300BO performs great at SBR lengths. I wouldn't build an SBR though, I would buy a factory rifle. I'm not much help on who's to buy because I'm not up to speed on who is offering factory SBRs in 300 BO. Mine is a Noveske, but not everyone wants to pay that much.

Another option would be to find you a Colt 6933 SBR, then just buy a 300BO SBR upper for it.

[jcm151]

I have a few of both, and have all of them suppressed. The 5.56 in a full length config is quiet enough for the shooter to shoot without hearing protection, and will sound real light to anyone standing off to the sides etc. However it isn't not going to scare your deer, hogs off.. The 5.56 has plenty of killing power.. But it is not ideal or forgiving on running pigs.. Shot placement becomes incredibly important at that point. I have killed a lot of pigs with 5.56, and the only place I like to shoot them is in the neck with a ballistic tip. 5.56 ammo is not cheap, but it is cheaper than 300. Ask yourself how much are you wanting to shoot this gun? Are you planning on training with it, a truck gun, or will a box of 20 rounds get your through 3 hunting seasons?

I have a 9.5 300 blackout and I can make hits on steel plates by simply holding top target (with eotech) at 200, and a few inches above at 300. I am shooting the 220grn HPBT subs. This is a heavy 30 cal round moving slowing. You are not going to get good expansion with this round, but it will make a decent sized hole. You are going to want to take head, neck, or into the shoulder shots. i would not recommend even double lung because again.. the hole is not super large and they will make it a ways before the succumb. The blackout supersonic crack will sound almost the same as 5.56.. Supersonic is supersonic..however surface area does play a factor. The blckout does have great supersonic loads for hunting though that will put the hurt on anything you shoot.. So can you handload your own ammo? the 30 cal has a ton of great options then.. I am doing 220grn soft points for subs, and 208amax as well.. both are much better than the HPBT for killing things.

They use the same mags, same bolt, etc.. Palmetto state armory has their m4 uppers on for sale at $329 right now.. I would build the blackout up and then just buy one of their uppers for plinking, and varmints..

[Daniel75]

Austin kade, glad to hear your round performed well on your hog. Tell me what bullet you were using, I'm always up for trying a new hand load but given the base component of the projectile is the same .30 for blackout as any other, there is nothing special or unique about it other than being loaded into a different case.

To clarify my statement, the poking holes involved a 220gr round nose at subsonic velocities. Subsonic expanding 30cal projectiles are available from companies such as ssl, outlaw state and others but they run ~$1.5 a projectile and thats not considering the other components to make a shootable cartridge.

As for most blackout commercial rounds, they aren't loaded for 1080fps or less and since you're not shooting a rig with a can I doubt you were shooting subs, and that would explain your misunderstanding my point about .30cal subsonic terminal performance.

125 grain ballistic tips.

[Javelin]

I still have to say it falls flat. It shoots a 125 grain at 2200 where a 6.8 shoots a 120 at 2600

[jcm151]

6.8 is a dying round.. You need a new bolt, mags, and the point of the round has become moot. 300blk out is delivering MOA groups out to 300 yards out of a short barrel.. ar15 carbines are designed for engagements up close. 6.8 does not cycle the action in an Automatic weapons platform with subsonic. The 300 delivers extreme knock down power and the 9" barrel produces almost identical ballistics as the 16" (figure that out....) which is why spec ops has started playing with them. The 6.8 is incredibly expensive, and doesn't suppress any better than the other two in supersonic ranges. Why purchase a 6.8 with extremely expensive ammo, when you can get more for less out of 300? You cannot run 6.8 rounds through a 5.56 can either. 300blk out brass can be made out of 5.56 very quickly and easily.. go to any reloading website and look at the 400 options for thirty cal from 108amax to 240grn sierras.. Although 270 has some options, only one of them will really come close to the ballistic coefficients and match qualities offered in 30 cal..

[dcw]

6.8 is a dying round.. You need a new bolt, mags, and the point of the round has become moot. 300blk out is delivering MOA groups out to 300 yards out of a short barrel.. ar15 carbines are designed for engagements up close. 6.8 does not cycle the action in an Automatic weapons platform with subsonic. The 300 delivers extreme knock down power and the 9" barrel produces almost identical ballistics as the 16" (figure that out....) which is why spec ops has started playing with them. The 6.8 is incredibly expensive, and doesn't suppress any better than the other two in supersonic ranges. Why purchase a 6.8 with extremely expensive ammo, when you can get more for less out of 300? You cannot run 6.8 rounds through a 5.56 can either. 300blk out brass can be made out of 5.56 very quickly and easily.. go to any reloading website and look at the 400 options for thirty cal from 108amax to 240grn sierras.. Although 270 has some options, only one of them will really come close to the ballistic coefficients and match qualities offered in 30 cal..

Not feeling you on this one. The 300 is a sweet round but not going to take over the world or the military. It is in my line up .

Like to see you jam a 220 grain bullet down a 5.56 can bro

"You cannot run 6.8 rounds through a 5.56 can either" Get a 7.62 can

[dcw]

Back to OP

[BigTex.308]

Thanks for all the input so far. I plan on reloading my own ammo (already got 3 presses and been reloading pistol ammo for a while. All I'll need is dies.) for whatever I end up getting. I figure I'll get a 5.56 and then get a .300 blackout upper and when I'm ready I can build another rifle around that upper, but in the meantime I can switch back and forth depending on what I'll be using it for.


Ike

[jcm151]

Well that is the point, the OP is asking about 5.56 or 300 blk out. the interjection of 6.8 b/c of ballistics is not exactly valid at this point. I am not talking about the world or the military. Comparing things to the military is also a bad way to base an argument. The military buys what they can with the money the have, and that doesn't mean the best. However Special operations is (or was) a rather small portion of the military, and there are specific reasons that have a lot less to do with logistics for the gear they choose, and more so mission specific(I.E. they have found the 300 to be reliable, deadly, and quite for killing). In an opportunity costs situation the 6.8spc does not make sense now that the current options are out there. And from my first point he can gear up exactly the same, minus upper/barrel for a 5.56-300blk out interchangeable weapons system, that is not possible with the 6.8 (minus a 30 cal can). This is my opinion, however I own every caliber mentioned, in long and short barrel configs, all suppressed, and handload and hunt with them regularly.