Question for the LEO's....

[bho0351]

And for any of y'all fellow TBH'ers that may know. I apologize if this has been discussed before in advance.

I was doing some thinking today (and for you that know me, that's dangerous, I know ). If a person with a CHL or even a citizen driving by with a firearm in their vehicle, happens to see an officer in a dangerous situation in which he/she is alone to handle it, and if the citizen makes the decision to back up the officer, how would the civilian approach the officer or get involved in the situation to back up the officer without presenting themselves as a threat to the officer, as well as not distracting the officer from the situation? Or is this considered to not be recommended by the LEO's? Not sure what made me think of this, but am curious now.

[bho0351]

And if this is explained in a CHL class, I haven't been thru yet, so the question still remains.

[Buckshot-73]

I have pondered this for awhile myself.

Don't want to sit and watch an officer get hurt, but also don't want to be perceived as a threat.

[WCB]

This is only my opinion so here goes.
If I saw an officer down then I would jump in. But I would very cautious about trying to back one up. That's not my job. If it was really bad I might holler if he needed help but would do what he said and it could distract him from his current situation. I'd at least call 911 for real backup...

My first instinct would be to get the heck outta there...

[trailboss]

Just be very careful. If the Officer is in a situation that is bad enough that you think he needs help - it will be a very stressful situation for him and his reaction could be dangerous to you. A Police Officer can summon help from any citizen but there is no consequence to the citizen if he/she does not comply. Watch the situation carefully before deciding to contact the Officer to avoid distracting him in a manner that could be dangerous to him. More times than not, the best action to take is to just be a good witness.

Trailboss

[txfireguy2003]

Here's my take on it, this is coming from a guy that is a peace officer, but not one that has ever been on patrol, so not what some consider a "real cop." This is also something I thought about after getting my CHL years ago, before becoming a LEO. What I decided back then, and what I would want from a citizen now, is this:

If I saw an officer in a situation that I thought looked out of the ordinary or dangerous, but he was still on his feet and not actively fighting, I would stay a safe distance away and be a witness, but also be ready to jump in if the need arose. These situations are what officers are trained to deal with, he's most likely already in the process of either working his way though the use of force continuum, and/or trying to diffuse the situation so no further force is needed. By jumping in there, you may inadvertently elevate the situation, doing more harm than good. Today, I would do the same thing as in most cases, I'm in plain clothes and not easily identifiable as a LEO. On the other hand, if I see a fellow officer in a knock down drag out, you better believe I'm going to jump in there and help him, been there, done that. Now, if the officer in question is someone from my own agency, who will easily recognize me and my voice, I might ease up within earshot and just say something calmly to indicate to him that I had his back, but I'm not doing that to an officer who doesn't know me.

If I'm the officer in question, and you see me in a confrontation that has not quite become physical yet, I would want you to do what I would do. Stand back, don't draw attention to yourself, call 9-1-1 (I may not have had the opportunity to communicate effectively about my location or situation) and be a witness until LEO backup arrives. Now, here's where I divert from MY plan. If I'm in a life and death fight (and trust me, if I'm rolling around on the ground with someone, it's life and death serious) a little help would most certainly be welcome IF YOU HELP and don't get in the way. That being said, I'd don't expect any physical help from any civilian in that situation, it's not your job, but please, by all means, call 9-1-1 and give them all the information you can.

As was said above, most times, the best thing for a civilian to do is to be a good witness.

[Chew]

Wrecker drivers were my best friend when I worked patrol on night shift with not much back up around. You can ask if the officer needs help...if he's not able to answer, he probably does!

[SugarSWAT]

Glad someone brought this up. Here is what I personally would request; TRAILBOSS hit it on the head.
NEVER approach the scene. As mentioned before, We have a lot to be focused on especially if we are dealing with someone who is getting squirrelly on us. The distraction could escalate the situation and put you in a dangers spot. Most definitely never approach the scene armed. There is already one gun on scene that we know of..our own...we don't want another one. YOU know you are there to help, WE don't. Now...this being said..if I'm on the ground and things have obviously NOT gone the way I planned...then please..I'm not too proud to take help. Help out but don't take over. Do what the officer says..if he says Get Back...then do it. If were simply getting our butt kicked. help us out by pulling him off or something to allow us to regain control. AGAIN, only if you feel confident in doing so..Dont run up gun drawn and ready to blaze cause again...were going to be REALLY amped up and may not perceive you as a friend..Obviously if the Officers to the point he's unconscious or pinned down by gunfire....do what you need to do to stay safe...But help if you can.Because if its gotten to that point, it's gonna get worse...Just a couple weeks ago an Officer here in Texas was pinned down with gunfire by a suspect. 75 year old Neighbor came out and saw the Officer obviously NOT doing so well, drew his .44mag revolver and fired hitting the suspect in the leg. This gave the Officer time to react to the distracted suspect and "eliminate the threat" ..saved the Officers life no doubt. I know I'm rambling here and I hope this cleared some things up. In conclusion...if you see an Officer having trouble with someone, just stop your vehicle, or stay back a good distance to where the Officer won't even know you are there. Keep watch..if it starts getting worse..move a bit closer but don't yet move in. Chances are he's got backup already in route. If it gets bad, don't move in too quickly. Give the Officr a chance to handle it, you will know when he needs help.If you decide to help, commit to it. And make sure you let him know you are there to help. You will have to scream "IM HERE TO HELP" or something to let us know. In high stress hearing shuts down, and vision tunnels. We won't hear or see you until you are right there. NEVER draw your weapon unless you are left with no choice. If you do as soon as the threat is over. PUT IT DOWN!..cause our buddies are coming, and they might see you as a threat on arrival.
The thought of knowing that you guys are even enquiring about this makes us feel a little safer out there. THANK YOU. I wish there were more citizens like you. I sit right now on modified duty recovering from surgery on an injury I got fighting a crackhead on PCP. I rolled for 10 minutes with this jacka@@ to the point of exhaustion and a severed ACL in my left knee while no less than 5 people stood around with their camera phones taking pictures. By the grace of GOD and will power I came out on top without further injury. Would have been really nice to have had one of y'all there!
God Bless

[SugarSWAT]

Wrecker drivers were my best friend when I worked patrol on night shift with not much back up around. You can ask if the officer needs help...if he's not able to answer, he probably does!

Oh yea! Gotta love those guys!

[xman59]

i spent 30 on the street, been in my share of fights,,,

staying out of the way and being a witness can be just as important and sometimes more so than getting physically involved,, however if that officer is in a full out fight or what looks like a hard struggle,, and your willing to help,,, try to get into the officers line of sight, but never behind him,, swing wide enough that he does not view you as another threat,, then in as loud a voice as needed,, "OFFICER DO YOU NEED HELP? or,, " OFFICER, DO YOU WANT MY HELP" Or " HOW CAN I HELP"
keep it short, and direct,, if you do get involved,, try to work on the opposite side from his gun,, give him room to get to it if he thinks it's needed,, and again,, this will be viewed more of willingness to help,, if the officer wants your help he will ask,, or respond to your question very quickly... i have had citizens in the past get close enough to simply tell me they have my back covered,, and never got involved in the fight, but gave me help by keeping anyone else from getting to me from behind

i had one incident in which i was fighting a suspect,, in front of a house i had a run in with the resident the week before,,, he came out of the door on a dead run, and my only thought was i was about to die, he was a huge man, well over 6'4" and probably 350#, he came right on into the fight pushed me out of the way like i wasn't even there,, picked the fighting suspect up over his head and body slammed him on the ground,,,, fight over!!,, last weeks suspect turned out to be a nice guy, and at that time he was an offensvie lineman for missouri! he made sure i was ok, and asked if i needed anything else,, i looked at the suspect, who had no fight left and told him no,, i believe he had taken care of the problem,,, he thanked me for not shooting him the week before, and appologized for having been such a problem,, somehow i forgot to get his name and address ,, i hate it when that happens!

[SugarSWAT]

i spent 30 on the street, been in my share of fights,,,

staying out of the way and being a witness can be just as important and sometimes more so than getting physically involved,, however if that officer is in a full out fight or what looks like a hard struggle,, and your willing to help,,, try to get into the officers line of sight, but never behind him,, swing wide enough that he does not view you as another threat,, then in as loud a voice as needed,, "OFFICER DO YOU NEED HELP? or,, " OFFICER, DO YOU WANT MY HELP" Or " HOW CAN I HELP"
keep it short, and direct,, if you do get involved,, try to work on the opposite side from his gun,, give him room to get to it if he thinks it's needed,, and again,, this will be viewed more of willingness to help,, if the officer wants your help he will ask,, or respond to your question very quickly... i have had citizens in the past get close enough to simply tell me they have my back covered,, and never got involved in the fight, but gave me help by keeping anyone else from getting to me from behind

i had one incident in which i was fighting a suspect,, in front of a house i had a run in with the resident the week before,,, he came out of the door on a dead run, and my only thought was i was about to die, he was a huge man, well over 6'4" and probably 350#, he came right on into the fight pushed me out of the way like i wasn't even there,, picked the fighting suspect up over his head and body slammed him on the ground,,,, fight over!!,, last weeks suspect turned out to be a nice guy, and at that time he was an offensvie lineman for missouri! he made sure i was ok, and asked if i needed anything else,, i looked at the suspect, who had no fight left and told him no,, i believe he had taken care of the problem,,, he thanked me for not shooting him the week before, and appologized for having been such a problem,, somehow i forgot to get his name and address ,, i hate it when that happens!

Lol..not funny at the time I know but definitely brings a chuckle now! No matter the situation, treat them with respect and they will not forget it!

[tvc184]

My thoughts are mixed and depend on what you call a "dangerous" situation?

There are plenty of times that I was on a traffic stop or some other public contact and had to turn my intention to maybe a well meaning person. If I am really in a bad situation that I am still on control of, I won't want to have to deal with answering questions or take my eyes off of the biggest threat.

I am reminded of Officer James Irby from Houston PD, a funeral that I attended over 20 years ago. If I remember correctly, Officer Irby was dealing with a traffic violator and the suspect came up behind Irby and shot him. The point is that a threat can and will come from anywhere. When I see someone walk up behind me when I am dealing with something else, I am wondering if I am going to be the next James Irby. For that reason, I need to then start trying to look in two different directions at a time when I would rather not.

On the other hand, if I am already in trouble, I will take any help that is available. A couple of times in my career I was helped out of a jam once I was already in a scuffle. If you see me on the ground outside of my patrol unit and I am struggling with a suspect, feel free to jump in.

.... or if I am behind cover and engaged in a shootout with a guy on the side of the road and you can run over the SOB..... go for it.

In other cases? I might tend to lean toward staying far enough back so as not to draw my attention away from the task at hand and be a good witness or close enough to jump if it starts going south.

[bowhunterhelm]

My answer to you as a patrol officer is do not get involved! Be a good witness, that's it.

[bho0351]

Thank you all for your input, it was very helpful. My main concern would be causing any sort of distraction, but if the need arose I would no doubt have the officer's back.

Most importantly THANK YOU for what y'all do.

[SugarSWAT]

Thank you all for your input, it was very helpful. My main concern would be causing any sort of distraction, but if the need arose I would no doubt have the officer's back.

Most importantly THANK YOU for what y'all do.

Thank you for watching out for us