Home defense weapon choice. Good read.

[Lungbustr]

We havent even started talking about the most powerful dove load yet. Its called a cut shell. You take and cut almost a full ring around the hull but make the cuts overlap. When fired all the pellets are held together buy the hull leaving the barrel and impacting like a slug. Say your out dove hunting and see a pig. Well you gotta KAP right? So you just cut you a shell, chamber it creep up on it and let it loose right in its neck or head. One less pig. Im gonna educate yall about the best short range weapon ever the shotgun, before its over with.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU"]The lost art of "Cut Shells" - YouTube[/ame]

[Tuffbroadhead]

We havent even started talking about the most powerful dove load yet. Its called a cut shell. You take and cut almost a full ring around the hull but make the cuts overlap. When fired all the pellets are held together buy the hull leaving the barrel and impacting like a slug. Say your out dove hunting and see a pig. Well you gotta KAP right? So you just cut you a shell, chamber it creep up on it and let it loose right in its neck or head. One less pig. Im gonna educate yall about the best short range weapon ever the shotgun, before its over with.

]

That would leave a mark , LOL!!

[Bonesplitter]

I've cut many a shell out hunting myself. They will definitely tear stuff up!

[texas_red_19]

ive heard about it but i aint ever seen it

[Dale Moser]

Impossible. In order for it to knock them down it would have to knock you down when you shoot it. That whole equal and opposite reaction thing.

Mike, you are one of the most well versed gun/ballistics guys I know. You can't possibly believe that?

[Jackson357]

Nope. Just tired of banging my head against a wall. Not one person who believes that bird shot is a good manstopper has shown any single bit of fact based evidence, strictly opinions.

I don't know of but maybe one other person that has commented on this entire thread that would have an inkling of a clue of real world scenarios nor spent as much time researching this stuff as I have.

It's obvious people's opinions are stronger than factual evidence to them.

This statement really bothers me Mike D. It is very offensive & hurtful to me.

[Mike D]

and i said put him down not knock him down. but since u wanna get technical. a 50 bmg will knock him down and the two guys behind him. but it wont knock me down when i shoot it. and yes ive shot it before.

I stand corrected. You did say just that. I read it wrong. I thought you were implying it would take him off his feet.

[panhandlehunter]

Impossible. In order for it to knock them down it would have to knock you down when you shoot it. That whole equal and opposite reaction thing.

Not entirely true. I saw on Mythbusters where they used a fan on a sailboat to propel the sailboat.

[Mike D]

Look here's the facts as I know them.

I have seen 4 people shot in my life.

1) one was shot at basically point blank range with a 22 revolver when it "accidentally" went off. The person that was shot was DRT. The bullet entered just below their left nostril at an upward angle. Obviously a brain or CNS shot. Not surprising they were dead before they hit the ground.

2) second committed suicide by shooting himself square in the chest with a 22 magnum revolver. He died before the ambulance made it there.

3) third was my cousin who got shot square in the side at less than 10' with a 12 gauge and #6 "high brass" squirrel loads. He's still walking around to this day.

4) fourth was a family friend who got shot with a 30-30 while deer hunting from about 25 yards. The guy that shot him saw bushes moving and shot. He's dead as a hammer as well.

So I'd say I've seen more than most and less than a lot. This stuff fascinates me so I spend a lot of time reading and talking to people who do this kind of stuff professionally. I'd say I'm more qualified to speak facts about terminal performance than a lot of folks that are just stating opinions.

Believe what you want.

[texas_red_19]

dude sorry for what you ve seen but if thats all you ve seen. i wouldnt go around throwing out facts and opinons the way u do. cuase i saw more than that before i was old enough to drink. so like i said research is only as good as the people conducting the test. mor people on here are staing what theyve seen. and ur going off like a autopsy expert or some 20 yr soldier or cop. and ur still wrong about alot of stuff you ve said. and gettin gmadder by the minute about it

[Jackson357]

dude sorry for what you ve seen but if thats all you ve seen. i wouldnt go around throwing out facts and opinons the way u do. cuase i saw more than that before i was old enough to drink. so like i said research is only as good as the people conducting the test. mor people on here are staing what theyve seen. and ur going off like a autopsy expert or some 20 yr soldier or cop. and ur still wrong about alot of stuff you ve said. and gettin gmadder by the minute about it

So what have you seen? Mr EXPERT

[Mike D]

dude sorry for what you ve seen but if thats all you ve seen. i wouldnt go around throwing out facts and opinons the way u do. cuase i saw more than that before i was old enough to drink. so like i said research is only as good as the people conducting the test. mor people on here are staing what theyve seen. and ur going off like a autopsy expert or some 20 yr soldier or cop. and ur still wrong about alot of stuff you ve said. and gettin gmadder by the minute about it

I don't get mad bro, I just state what I know. I just try to educate folks on the things I know and try do dispell as much of the Internet BS as I can.

And again, the folks that I talk to do work in the field where they would see what happens in the real world in regards to terminal ballistics and how different bullets and weapons perform on humans. I don't just regurgitate what I read on arf.com or whatever. It is real world stuff.

Like I said believe what you want.

I assume you are/were in the military and if you saw combat I'm sure you've seen plenty.

[panhandlehunter]

A simple google search will provide several of examples of dove/quail hunting fatalities. I don't really have a dog in this fight, I would never use bird shot as a home defense round. Several people have stated that bird shot at close range doesn't have the power to kill, or even disable a would be assailant, and that's just false.

[BoneDigger]

A simple google search will provide several of examples of dove/quail hunting fatalities.

And several instances of being shot but surviving?

Todd

[texas_red_19]

I don't get mad bro, I just state what I know. I just try to educate folks on the things I know and try do dispell as much of the Internet BS as I can.

And again, the folks that I talk to do work in the field where they would see what happens in the real world in regards to terminal ballistics and how different bullets and weapons perform on humans. I don't just regurgitate what I read on arf.com or whatever. It is real world stuff.

Like I said believe what you want.

I assume you are/were in the military and if you saw combat I'm sure you've seen plenty.

yeah i was. also an mp in the army so i saw more than and ive seen about 5 accidents on ranges or hunting. but ur reading stuff off the net and what one person has seen one time u know. ur getting stories from guys on here who have seen it more than once. flukes happen all the time. i just get the feeling ur basing to much off what u read or a few people have told you. i read alot too about this stuff it fascinates me. but point is stories get warped and so does research. look at relaity. if bb will bring down a hog on a head shot. it will work on a person. we aint animals we aint as tough as them. ive had hogs run on a double lung shot from a 7 mag. no human could or would do that.