Help Transitioning our Farm

[cehorn]

A lot of good suggestions here and I'll probably repeat some but here is what I would do (disclaimers: I am no biologist and I am not close to East Texas so keep that in mind):

• Get a biologist out there to help. TPWD is free and can be good. A private is not free but would likely be better.
• Remove any and all livestock that may be on the place. If you are truly all in on deer this will remove competition, especially for what I suggest below to plant as cows will wipe out a food plot in a hurry.
• As others have stated, hammer the predators and hogs
• Keep up the protein and making sure they have water, you could also add cotton seed to this
• Throw out some minerals at each feed location - I have had success with Trophy Rock and I recently put out some 12-12 blocks that are supposed to be good stuff but my deer haven't taken to them yet. I have also thought about adding the double down mineral but haven't yet - their method is to put out a powdered mineral in the throw radius of the corn feeder every few months and any time the deer eat a kernel of corn they get minerals on their nose, etc that they lick off.
• Decide what areas you want to plant and grow annual spring food plots and get after them, the more the better. On our place this about double what we plant in the fall and not necessarily where we hunt. You can start with a good deer spring plot mix from Hancock or Turner. This year we made our own mix of vetch, alyce clover, cowpeas and sun hemp based on reading several threads here (elgato's, bgleaton's and others). This is more work but I think we also put less filler in the ground this year as well.
• Outside of food plot areas, we disk 1/3 of our place every year as much as we can disk with trees, rocks, slope, etc. Rotate doing that. As others have said, this will stir up native seeds and generate new native growth instead of the hay. We have had multiple biologists on multiple ranches state this as the first thing to do. It has also been suggested to us to not disk it again until you can't tell it was ever disked which is likely in that 3-4 year range (why we do 1/3) but this is our first year and I think there will be several factors to that including rain in a given year, etc.
• We also plant 4 or 5 acres of perennial mix where we disk. If you can plant more go for it, our limit is cost so if you can afford for more do more. Our biologist put us on to Turner Seeds Forb Mix. It seems to be good stuff but again if you want to use another brand or come up with your own mix that wouldn't be bad. The big 4 as I have learned for deer are: Bush Sunflower, Engelmann Daisy, Illinois Bundleflower and Maximilian Sunflower (The Turner seed forb mix has 3 of these 4 along with other stuff). See if any of those will grow in your area and go heavy there. The mix I mentioned for the annual has several perennials including alyce clover and vetch (it is listed as an annual in some places but I have heard people like elgato say it comes back over and over) so you could switch that over to your perennial areas if you would like. I was going to go with Lespedeza this year based on recommendations here but I couldn't find any and got some other supposedly better suggestions. I added Dutch White Clover to my perennial mix and should have added Lab Lab as well. I will add Lab Lab next year This all should help turn it from hay fields to deer fields.
• Fertilize to the extent you can. As others have mentioned do a soil test and see what you need. Or you can go with a generic all purpose and it will still help. As with other bullet points do as much as you can afford on plots, disked land and perennials.
• This would be more long term but as others have stated, plant some oaks and/or pecan trees. At home we hate hackberry and consider it a trash tree (crop and cattle land) but it can also be very beneficial to deer if you want to get some of those going. They can spread rapidly so keep that in mind if you do introduce. I have also seen people suggest fruit trees so you may check to see if there are any that would grow in your area.

This is all I have for now. Good luck and either keep this thread going or start a new one journaling what you do. Those type of threads by elgato, bgleaton, etc. are my favorites to read and follow.

[ThisLadyHunts]

A lot of good suggestions here and I'll probably repeat some but here is what I would do (disclaimers: I am no biologist and I am not close to East Texas so keep that in mind):

• Get a biologist out there to help. TPWD is free and can be good. A private is not free but would likely be better.
• Remove any and all livestock that may be on the place. If you are truly all in on deer this will remove competition, especially for what I suggest below to plant as cows will wipe out a food plot in a hurry.
• As others have stated, hammer the predators and hogs
• Keep up the protein and making sure they have water, you could also add cotton seed to this
• Throw out some minerals at each feed location - I have had success with Trophy Rock and I recently put out some 12-12 blocks that are supposed to be good stuff but my deer haven't taken to them yet. I have also thought about adding the double down mineral but haven't yet - their method is to put out a powdered mineral in the throw radius of the corn feeder every few months and any time the deer eat a kernel of corn they get minerals on their nose, etc that they lick off.
• Decide what areas you want to plant and grow annual spring food plots and get after them, the more the better. On our place this about double what we plant in the fall and not necessarily where we hunt. You can start with a good deer spring plot mix from Hancock or Turner. This year we made our own mix of vetch, alyce clover, cowpeas and sun hemp based on reading several threads here (elgato's, bgleaton's and others). This is more work but I think we also put less filler in the ground this year as well.
• Outside of food plot areas, we disk 1/3 of our place every year as much as we can disk with trees, rocks, slope, etc. Rotate doing that. As others have said, this will stir up native seeds and generate new native growth instead of the hay. We have had multiple biologists on multiple ranches state this as the first thing to do. It has also been suggested to us to not disk it again until you can't tell it was ever disked which is likely in that 3-4 year range (why we do 1/3) but this is our first year and I think there will be several factors to that including rain in a given year, etc.
• We also plant 4 or 5 acres of perennial mix where we disk. If you can plant more go for it, our limit is cost so if you can afford for more do more. Our biologist put us on to Turner Seeds Forb Mix. It seems to be good stuff but again if you want to use another brand or come up with your own mix that wouldn't be bad. The big 4 as I have learned for deer are: Bush Sunflower, Engelmann Daisy, Illinois Bundleflower and Maximilian Sunflower (The Turner seed forb mix has 3 of these 4 along with other stuff). See if any of those will grow in your area and go heavy there. The mix I mentioned for the annual has several perennials including alyce clover and vetch (it is listed as an annual in some places but I have heard people like elgato say it comes back over and over) so you could switch that over to your perennial areas if you would like. I was going to go with Lespedeza this year based on recommendations here but I couldn't find any and got some other supposedly better suggestions. I added Dutch White Clover to my perennial mix and should have added Lab Lab as well. I will add Lab Lab next year This all should help turn it from hay fields to deer fields.
• Fertilize to the extent you can. As others have mentioned do a soil test and see what you need. Or you can go with a generic all purpose and it will still help. As with other bullet points do as much as you can afford on plots, disked land and perennials.
• This would be more long term but as others have stated, plant some oaks and/or pecan trees. At home we hate hackberry and consider it a trash tree (crop and cattle land) but it can also be very beneficial to deer if you want to get some of those going. They can spread rapidly so keep that in mind if you do introduce. I have also seen people suggest fruit trees so you may check to see if there are any that would grow in your area.

This is all I have for now. Good luck and either keep this thread going or start a new one journaling what you do. Those type of threads by elgato, bgleaton, etc. are my favorites to read and follow.

Great narrative and great information. Sounds like you have a great plan and have moved along on it quite well. Can’t wait to see reports of your success in the future.

[curtintex]

A lot of good suggestions here and I'll probably repeat some but here is what I would do (disclaimers: I am no biologist and I am not close to East Texas so keep that in mind):

• Get a biologist out there to help. TPWD is free and can be good. A private is not free but would likely be better.
• Remove any and all livestock that may be on the place. If you are truly all in on deer this will remove competition, especially for what I suggest below to plant as cows will wipe out a food plot in a hurry.
• As others have stated, hammer the predators and hogs
• Keep up the protein and making sure they have water, you could also add cotton seed to this
• Throw out some minerals at each feed location - I have had success with Trophy Rock and I recently put out some 12-12 blocks that are supposed to be good stuff but my deer haven't taken to them yet. I have also thought about adding the double down mineral but haven't yet - their method is to put out a powdered mineral in the throw radius of the corn feeder every few months and any time the deer eat a kernel of corn they get minerals on their nose, etc that they lick off.
• Decide what areas you want to plant and grow annual spring food plots and get after them, the more the better. On our place this about double what we plant in the fall and not necessarily where we hunt. You can start with a good deer spring plot mix from Hancock or Turner. This year we made our own mix of vetch, alyce clover, cowpeas and sun hemp based on reading several threads here (elgato's, bgleaton's and others). This is more work but I think we also put less filler in the ground this year as well.
• Outside of food plot areas, we disk 1/3 of our place every year as much as we can disk with trees, rocks, slope, etc. Rotate doing that. As others have said, this will stir up native seeds and generate new native growth instead of the hay. We have had multiple biologists on multiple ranches state this as the first thing to do. It has also been suggested to us to not disk it again until you can't tell it was ever disked which is likely in that 3-4 year range (why we do 1/3) but this is our first year and I think there will be several factors to that including rain in a given year, etc.
• We also plant 4 or 5 acres of perennial mix where we disk. If you can plant more go for it, our limit is cost so if you can afford for more do more. Our biologist put us on to Turner Seeds Forb Mix. It seems to be good stuff but again if you want to use another brand or come up with your own mix that wouldn't be bad. The big 4 as I have learned for deer are: Bush Sunflower, Engelmann Daisy, Illinois Bundleflower and Maximilian Sunflower (The Turner seed forb mix has 3 of these 4 along with other stuff). See if any of those will grow in your area and go heavy there. The mix I mentioned for the annual has several perennials including alyce clover and vetch (it is listed as an annual in some places but I have heard people like elgato say it comes back over and over) so you could switch that over to your perennial areas if you would like. I was going to go with Lespedeza this year based on recommendations here but I couldn't find any and got some other supposedly better suggestions. I added Dutch White Clover to my perennial mix and should have added Lab Lab as well. I will add Lab Lab next year This all should help turn it from hay fields to deer fields.
• Fertilize to the extent you can. As others have mentioned do a soil test and see what you need. Or you can go with a generic all purpose and it will still help. As with other bullet points do as much as you can afford on plots, disked land and perennials.
• This would be more long term but as others have stated, plant some oaks and/or pecan trees. At home we hate hackberry and consider it a trash tree (crop and cattle land) but it can also be very beneficial to deer if you want to get some of those going. They can spread rapidly so keep that in mind if you do introduce. I have also seen people suggest fruit trees so you may check to see if there are any that would grow in your area.

This is all I have for now. Good luck and either keep this thread going or start a new one journaling what you do. Those type of threads by elgato, bgleaton, etc. are my favorites to read and follow.

Thanks. This is all very good information. I got to spend about an hour on the phone with elgato (Mr. Baker) yesterday evening and he's going to be visiting my farm next Tuesday to check things out and help me formulate a plan. Many of your bullet points are things that he recommended. I can't wait to get started and I will make another thread when I do.

[KactusKiller]

Curt look in the management forum at our 500ac thread. Also watch youtube, there is tons of land management groups that do non stop land improvement videos. Alot of them deal with exactly what your talking about. Growing Deer(Grant Woods) is a great one and prob one of the best as far as how too and what to do. Also Drury outdoors does alot. Most of these are based in midwest but alot of what they teach will work in our area as well.

[canny]

Few things come to mind here...

1. If you want to keep the pasture areas, look at converting them to switch grass to provide for deer habitat
2. If you want to convert them to trees then I would look at doing some scattered orchards, focusing on pears, sawtooth oaks, and other fast bearing fruit trees. You can plant pines in the rest of the pasture but I would recommend a lighter density to continue to allow the grass understory.
3. You need a mixture of dense underbrush and also open timber. The open timber should be burned annually to bi-annually to promote the grass, forbs, and other good browse species.
4. A lot of research has been done on bedding cover types for both whitetail does and bucks. Check out some of the QDMA and other wildlife publications to get an idea on where/what type of cover to create to favor both bucks and does

5. The most important part IMO is to create a No-Go zone, i.e. sanctuary that contains everything the deer need, food, water, fawning cover, etc. If you lay it out right then that area becomes a central hub and your other improvements surround that area.

[curtintex]

Curt look in the management forum at our 500ac thread. Also watch youtube, there is tons of land management groups that do non stop land improvement videos. Alot of them deal with exactly what your talking about. Growing Deer(Grant Woods) is a great one and prob one of the best as far as how too and what to do. Also Drury outdoors does alot. Most of these are based in midwest but alot of what they teach will work in our area as well.

I spent half the night watching Grant Wood's YouTube videos.

[boy wonder]

Have you considered selling the improved place and getting a more wild piece of land? Just a thought…

[RascalArms]

Nothing of value I can add that hasn't already been stated that's for sure. But one thing I DO KNOW. Mr Joslin will do it RIGHT!!

[curtintex]

Have you considered selling the improved place and getting a more wild piece of land? Just a thought…

No. I practically stole this place and couldn't replace it for 3X what I paid just 7 years ago. I spent a ton of time and money rebuilding the 17ac lake and dam. Stocked it with forage fish and Florida strain black bass. Built about 2.5 miles of all-weather roads. Convinced the county to return a road easement to me that once divided my place. Built a beautiful highway entry gate. Remodeled the 120 year old farmhouse that was abandoned 20+ years prior. Built several outbuildings. Built two small houses. Drilled 3 wells. My family loves this place and my wife might kill me if I sold this place. Nah...I'll just keep fixing things until I get it right.

[Chance Love]

No. I practically stole this place and couldn't replace it for 3X what I paid just 7 years ago. I spent a ton of time and money rebuilding the 17ac lake and dam.

That dam was awesome leverage, wasn’t it?

[Landrover]

No. I practically stole this place and couldn't replace it for 3X what I paid just 7 years ago. I spent a ton of time and money rebuilding the 17ac lake and dam. Stocked it with forage fish and Florida strain black bass. Built about 2.5 miles of all-weather roads. Convinced the county to return a road easement to me that once divided my place. Built a beautiful highway entry gate. Remodeled the 120 year old farmhouse that was abandoned 20+ years prior. Built several outbuildings. Built two small houses. Drilled 3 wells. My family loves this place and my wife might kill me if I sold this place. Nah...I'll just keep fixing things until I get it right.

Wow.......amazing feat all by itself!!!

[TeamAmerica]

No advice but I see an epic thread coming. I gather when curt puts his mind to it things get done!

[curtintex]

That dam was awesome leverage, wasn’t it?

You ain't lying.

[curtintex]

Wow.......amazing feat all by itself!!!

It took a few years and the incumbent getting beaten in an election. It was STUPID. I had an old County Road easement that ran through our place. The road ended at our house, but the easement went on to connect to another road. It was impassable in a vehicle, but half of Tyler County used it as a 4wheeler or SxS trail. All hours of the night. Google Maps showed the road to go all the way through, so when it deadended at my house, people would just turn around in the yard. It was a circus and no reason not to close it. Finally got a reasonable commissioner that got it done in less than 2 weeks with one sheet of paper.

[Landrover]

It took a few years and the incumbent getting beaten in an election. It was STUPID. I had an old County Road easement that ran through our place. The road ended at our house, but the easement went on to connect to another road. It was impassable in a vehicle, but half of Tyler County used it as a 4wheeler or SxS trail. All hours of the night. Google Maps showed the road to go all the way through, so when it deadended at my house, people would just turn around in the yard. It was a circus and no reason not to close it. Finally got a reasonable commissioner that got it done in less than 2 weeks with one sheet of paper.

Ouch........yes, that would have had me running hottt!!!
I have just learned of an easement (it did not come up by my title company) of about 255 feet allowing the neighbor access within my south fence line. The guy has turned into a slight nuisance as there is another road within 25 feet of this easement he can use. I may just put 4 gates on that 255 feet. Need to learn what my recourse is with the title company however? Glad to hear you got a GREAT resolution to that nonsense!!!