Electrical question - GFCI

[Greenheadless]

Less than 2 years old

Electrical trades warranty is 24 months on new construction.

[E.TX.BOWHUNTER]

Wait a second. Are any other GFCIs installed at this time and on this same circuit? They can interfere with each other. Is there ANY voltage between the white wires and the bare copper or ground wire?

[E.TX.BOWHUNTER]

I already don’t like the GFCI is not the 1st thing from the breaker.

[Shane]

No voltage on any other wires.

[Shane]

No voltage on any other wires. I’m gonna get the original electricians back out, and I’m gonna have them put all the patio outlets on a separate circuit with just one GFCI.

[Pedernal]

Laziness is all I can come up with. The patio outlets should all be on a circuit by themselves.

Laziness or to save a run of wire. How old is your house?

[Shane]

Laziness or to save a run of wire. How old is your house?

Less than 2 years old.

[ThisLadyHunts]

Laziness or to save a run of wire. How old is your house?

Laziness and, probably, different teams of electrician/employees doing the work. No overall electrical plan available to refer to (or no one following it) and no coordination between the various teams.

Basically, a fluster cluck of electrical proportions.

[Bill M]

Electrical trades warranty is 24 months on new construction.

This was true when I was building, plumber also.

Shane, have the builder get the electrician out there, it should be under warranty.

When I was building, I drew my plans and that included electrical. GFCI SHOULD NOT be run with other circuits. Ever.

[Greenheadless]

Not against code to run GFCI protection with other non-GFCI on a circuit. Sounds like what they did here. While not ‘pretty’ it’s not against code.

****Disclaimer, I’m not up to speed on any potential changes to residential requirements in 2023 revisions. Do your own research just incase or call a professional.

[Bill]

Ive replaced 2 at my dads in a week. With regular plugs. Kitchen and a bathroom.

Do you mean receptacles, not plugs?

If somebody manages to be in contact with an appliance with a hot touching the housing (or in their hand and it gets wet or drops into the sink or a tub) and is standing on a floor that is ground (most are), there are two scenarios:

- With GFCI protection, the power is shut off at 4-7 milli (thousandths) of an amp to protect somebody from electrocution or

- Without GFCI protection, the power is shut off at 20 amps by the main breaker to protect the house wiring from getting hot, and you risk death by electrocution as the current passes from the hand, through the arm, through the torso and heart, and to the feet and ground.

It would really suck to be standing in a funeral home with a deceased loved one and know you did it by replacing the GFCI with a conventional receptacle. And wondering if the police will investigate when and by whom they were removed.

I know they can be a PIA with freezers and refrigerators, but the NEC requires them for a reason. They save lives.

You decide.

To the OP, I'd go to Home Depot, buy 2 new GFCI receptacles for less than $40, turn off the breaker(s), and replace them. If it doesn't solve the problem, bring them back to Home Depot and call an electrician.

[Greenheadless]

Do you mean receptacles, not plugs?

If somebody manages to be in contact with an appliance with a hot touching the housing (or in their hand and it gets wet or drops into the sink or a tub) and is standing on a floor that is ground (most are), there are two scenarios:

.

In this scenario, if the appliance was grounded and bonded correctly, the low resistance ground fault would trip the breaker, without needing GFCI protection.

[Quackerbox]

Do you mean receptacles, not plugs?

If somebody manages to be in contact with an appliance with a hot touching the housing (or in their hand and it gets wet or drops into the sink or a tub) and is standing on a floor that is ground (most are), there are two scenarios:

- With GFCI protection, the power is shut off at 4-7 milli (thousandths) of an amp to protect somebody from electrocution or

- Without GFCI protection, the power is shut off at 20 amps by the main breaker to protect the house wiring from getting hot, and you risk death by electrocution as the current passes from the hand, through the arm, through the torso and heart, and to the feet and ground.

It would really suck to be standing in a funeral home with a deceased loved one and know you did it by replacing the GFCI with a conventional receptacle. And wondering if the police will investigate when and by whom they were removed.

I know they can be a PIA with freezers and refrigerators, but the NEC requires them for a reason. They save lives.

You decide.

To the OP, I'd go to Home Depot, buy 2 new GFCI receptacles for less than $40, turn off the breaker(s), and replace them. If it doesn't solve the problem, bring them back to Home Depot and call an electrician.

I can tell you for near certain the po leace aint coming to investigate why someone got fried in they own house. No matter the reason. I know this because I gave up replacing plugs to investigate why people die

[Bill]

In this scenario, if the appliance was grounded and bonded correctly, the low resistance ground fault would trip the breaker, without needing GFCI protection.

I'm not a licensed electrician, but I have taken a course in residential wiring and done a lot of projects, including GFCI, the electrican thought I knew enough to trim a 3k sq foot home when we built it. If an appliance has a metal housing (like a saw or washing machine) and there's a 3-prong plug, yes if the hot shorted to the metal it would trip the breaker. If it's a 2-prong plus as most kitchen and bathroom appliances have (I just looked at my stainless steel Cuisinart coffee maker and it has a 2-prong plug, then the metal would be at 120VAC. This article from JAMA says 60% of bathroom electrocution deaths were from hair dryers, which makes sense.

Abstract

From 1979 to 1982, in the United States, at least 95 persons were electrocuted in bathtubs; 66% of the deaths occurred during the winter and spring. Children younger than 5 years had the greatest mortality rate, and hair dryers were responsible for 60% of the deaths. Until electric appliances used in bathrooms are made safer, the appliances should be disconnected when not in use, not used in wet bathtubs, and kept away from children.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/393950

I can tell you for near certain the po leace aint coming to investigate why someone got fried in they own house. No matter the reason. I know this because I gave up replacing plugs to investigate why people die

Interesting. When the coroner comes to remove Aunt Emma's body out of the bathroom and notes in their report the hair dryer was plugged into a conventional receptacle, I guess that does not get investigated in Texas.

I would feel pretty lousy at Aunt Emma's funeral when somebody asked, "Do you know how she died?"

The bottom line is your home, relatives, life, and decisions. I'd figure out why the GFCI keeps tripping. Be safe.

One more thing- I followed the code and installed a GFCI receptacle for a new GE standup freezer in our garage when we built the house in 2020 and have used it since 2021 and the GFCI has never tripped.

[Quackerbox]

I'm not a licensed electrician, but I have taken a course in residential wiring and done a lot of projects, including GFCI, the electrican thought I knew enough to trim a 3k sq foot home when we built it. If an appliance has a metal housing (like a saw or washing machine) and there's a 3-prong plug, yes if the hot shorted to the metal it would trip the breaker. If it's a 2-prong plus as most kitchen and bathroom appliances have (I just looked at my stainless steel Cuisinart coffee maker and it has a 2-prong plug, then the metal would be at 120VAC. This article from JAMA says 60% of bathroom electrocution deaths were from hair dryers, which makes sense.

Abstract

From 1979 to 1982, in the United States, at least 95 persons were electrocuted in bathtubs; 66% of the deaths occurred during the winter and spring. Children younger than 5 years had the greatest mortality rate, and hair dryers were responsible for 60% of the deaths. Until electric appliances used in bathrooms are made safer, the appliances should be disconnected when not in use, not used in wet bathtubs, and kept away from children.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/393950

Interesting. When the coroner comes to remove Aunt Emma's body out of the bathroom and notes in their report the hair dryer was plugged into a conventional receptacle, I guess that does not get investigated in Texas.

I would feel pretty lousy at Aunt Emma's funeral when somebody asked, "Do you know how she died?"

The bottom line is your home, relatives, life, and decisions. I'd figure out why the GFCI keeps tripping. Be safe.

One more thing- I followed the code and installed a GFCI receptacle for a new GE standup freezer in our garage when we built the house in 2020 and have used it since 2021 and the GFCI has never tripped.

The one thing my current role has taught me, when it's your time, it's your time