This is not another spike debate

[KactusKiller]

This is not another spike debate, but I am looking for input from everyone regarding yearling bucks. Huntinaddict's thread about the blaze buck got me to thinking. His picks showed the buck still well spotted and very young looking on 9-06-09. In November he doesn't have noticeable nubs. The following year he is a simple 5" spike. Looking at his newborn pics he seems to be a late hatch as most fawns that were dropped in July are starting to become solid by that time.
My question is do all yearlings only develope under the skin nubs or do some of the early dropped yearlings develope at least a couple inches of spike/protruding antler?
Will the late birth continue to effect the bucks growing cycle for years to come, I am speaking of the antler growing cycle? When they drop, when they start growing and when they finish out.

All this spike debate has got me too thinking and wondering if said 1.5 yr old spike will always be behind, not because of genetics or nutrition but because of his birth date , which can very by as much as 30+ days, in relation to the antler growing season.

[RiverRat1]

KAD and do not worry about it.

[robbyreneeward]

Will be watching to see how this progresses.

[Murph]

No not all fawns will have nubbins, some buck fawns can have small spikes if they are born early and have good nutrition.

Murph

[Huntin Addict]

I find this question interesting. I will do some research and digging to see what I can find out.

[barnett77859]

its both ways some of the older fawn will get a small spike through the skin some of the other will just have knots under there skin

[KactusKiller]

No not all fawns will have nubbins, some buck fawns can have small spikes if they are born early and have good nutrition.

Murph

That's exactly my "hypothesis" so to say. Can the spike debate be traced back to the birth day of a buck? And will that late start continue to hamper said bucks developement thru life. There has got to be a pen raised deer study where they have looked into this. In a natural setting it would be hard to keep track of certain bucks and when they were born, either early or late.

I know this is way over thinking deer management, but hay what else do we have to do until Friday!

[U.S.ArmyRetired]

This is an excerpt from "Specific Management Recommendations for White-Tailed Deer"Genetics: Spike antlered bucks are the result of inadequate nutrition, genetics, or a combination of these two factors. Research has shown that yearling (1 1/2 year old) bucks have the potential to produce 4 to 8 points as their first set of antlers if nutrition is adequate and they have the proper genetic background. Conversely, bucks may only produce spike antlers as yearlings if they have "spikes genes", even with adequate nutrition. Although the subsequent sets of antlers of yearling spikes generally will not be spikes, their antlers tend to be inferior to those of bucks that were forked antlered as yearlings. Consequently, the incidence of inferior antlered bucks in the population should be minimized by the combination of optimizing nutrition (habitat management) and including spike antlered bucks in the total deer harvest.

[TexMax]

I know what your asking and no would be my answer. Over over a period of several years 30 days will not make a difference. imo

[bcdawg1]

from my experience and what I have read, a yearling (this years fawn and be careful because there is even debate about the definition of a yearling) will never grow more than nubs. in rare cases I believe the nubs may break thru the skin but I don't believe they will ever be more than a nub (less than an 1/2" long)

[Tubby]

A fawn born early from an early rut has more potential to have protruding antler break thru the skin vs a fawn born late due to the doe taking only during the 2nd rut and only having nubs that never break the skin. Now, this doesn't always fall true due to drought conditions, heredity and nutrition.

Remember, a buck stops the growing process once he begins a significant rise in testosterone. The later they're born, the less growing time they have their first year.

[KactusKiller]

A fawn born early from an early rut has more potential to have protruding antler break thru the skin vs a fawn born late due to the doe taking only during the 2nd rut and only having nubs that never break the skin. Now, this doesn't always fall true due to drought conditions, heredity and nutrition.

Remember, a buck stops the growing process once he begins a significant rise in testosterone. The later they're born, the less growing time they have their first year.

Now that's what I'm talking about Tubby. I am just wondering if that same yearling buck that started growing late his first year will continue to be a late bloomer for the rest of his life? We all observe this every year where there are certain bucks that will always be grown out and others that look like they started a month after the rest of the herd. My thought is that if those late bloomers started growing later then they may have less time to grow than others as it seems that most deer rub out within a week of each other in their region.

[Tubby]

Now that's what I'm talking about Tubby. I am just wondering if that same yearling buck that started growing late his first year will continue to be a late bloomer for the rest of his life? We all observe this every year where there are certain bucks that will always be grown out and others that look like they started a month after the rest of the herd. My thought is that if those late bloomers started growing later then they may have less time to grow than others as it seems that most deer rub out within a week of each other in their region.

I don't believe he would. He'll be a late bloomer his first year, but the following years he'll be on tract with the rest of the herd.

[bcdawg1]

I don't believe he would. He'll be a late bloomer his first year, but the following years he'll be on tract with the rest of the herd.

agree.

[KactusKiller]

Probably, but just trying to make a correlation between late blooming fawns and the bucks we see throughout the summer who tend to be late bloomers when growing their antlers.
I just think it's great that these animals have so much mystery around them and despite all the money that has been spent on research that we still don't know it all and we are constantly learning about them.