Deer Experts-Question about Brow Tines

[ArcheryAddict]

Thin them out....completely.

[mhbaseball]

brow tines are one of the most inherited traits

[2B4Him]

Ridding bad genes isn't that difficult. We had a strain where some bucks had a main beam on one side that was symetric with the other side, but it never branched. We made an effort to cull them and over a 5-6 year period, we don't see any of them any more.

[Jamie]

730 acres low fenced....and you "think" you can influence the genetic makeup of your deer herd?

the experts say "no"

first, in the wild, culling does little to no good. Considering the very "iffy" genetic relationship between father bucks and their sons' antlers, "culling" a poor-antlered buck probably does nothing to improve the "genetics" of the local population. Culling would only be of some benefit to those properties so intensely managed (and usually contained [high-fenced]) that removing an under-performing buck is used to save food resources for other better performing bucks. Very, very few hunters are in that situation. The VAST MAJORITY OF TIMES a hunter "culls" a buck, it is simply an excuse to shoot a buck. They can then "save face" with their friends for shooting a smaller-antlered buck by calling the buck a "cull."

If only antler growth and genetics were that simple...

Here's some problems with your theory:

1) So far, there is little evidence a buck passes on his size/shape antler genetics to his male offspring. However, there is good evidence a mother does pass on antler size/shape genetics to her male offspring. Hence, if you have a particular trait appearing over and over again in your area, it is probably coming from a local doe group.

2) Most young bucks disperse from their birth range. If that particular mature buck was fathering bucks with a particular antler trait, most would leave the area before they were old enough to express that trait.

3) The genetic relationship to particular tine length is unknown. Often tine length is a function of nutritional intake over the course of an entire year. A buck may have the genetic capability to grow long tines, but if he doesn't receive proper nutrition, he won't express (grow) that trait.

4) Browtine length is one of the most "iffy" tines to look at genetically. Some bucks grow long browtines from middle-age onward. Some bucks don't grow long browtines until maturity. Some bucks never grow browtines at all.

Here's a perfect example. This mature (4 1/2) year-old buck has very short browtines. Considering he's already mature, most would assume that's all he's ever gowing to grow. Most--including myself--would believe he isn't going to put on much growth at all if allowed to live another year:




However, look at the overall increase in antler size and especially the massive increase in browtine length when this buck was one year older. Who would have guessed? Obviously, he had the genetic capability to grow long browtines all his life, but for whatever reason, did not express that capability until he was 5 1/2:

[OldRiverRat]

i read that many spikes, given the chance, will catch up with other bucks in terms of antler development by year 3 or 4. However many times the bucks that you see with no brows at older ages were most likely spikes. I can't sight the source but this fact stuck with me more than anything else in the study/article.

[ajavelina]

Brow tines are a highly genetic variable. And usually don't change from year to year. I would defiantly cull out the 3 yr olds with this characteristic and on good yrs the two yr olds.

[huntnguide83]

No brow tines or short brows get's a buck busted on our ranch. This can be extended to even short tines...5" or less and so on depending on your management level. IMHO i would start culling them this year as early as possible. Heat and drought do take a toll on animals but as already mentioned won't cause diminishing or non existent brow tines.

[Tejas Wildlife]

Correct!

DNA is what it is. Cull

Genetic trait that is strengthened in the population EVERYTIME you let one walk.

[brrdnk]

Its in the genitics. Got to cull to get the desired trait you want along with nutrition.

[big_smith]

The problem that I am having is looking back through last years photos, I cannot match these deer up. Last year we might have had a couple 2 yo deer that had no brows, but no older deer. If last year they had brows, but this year they do not, is that genetic, or a result of stress due to the drought?

[Txnrog]

We cull no-brows/one-brows @ 3.5, BUT we're going to be very lax on our culling this year. We've got hill country deer, so not the tight culling regiment you may see in S. Tx. I expect a very weak fawn crop, so any young age-class deer are going to get a pass. Culls this year are going to be older age class deer that are extra mouths to remove - 4.5-5.5's with less than 8pts are going to get whacked, and that's about it. Spikes are safe this season.

[holdem]

i read that many spikes, given the chance, will catch up with other bucks in terms of antler development by year 3 or 4. However many times the bucks that you see with no brows at older ages were most likely spikes. I can't sight the source but this fact stuck with me more than anything else in the study/article.

Kerr WMA: Deer Research Projects

Presence or Absence of Brow Tines as a Predictor for Future Antler Characteristics in a Quality Deer Management Program



Many landowners and sportsmen have often questioned why some mature bucks (4.5+ years old) do not have "brow tines." Since 1974, the Kerr Wildlife Management Area has been involved in a series of studies designed to determine the role of nutrition and/or genetics in antler development. We compared antler development based on presence of brow tines at 1, 2, 3, and 4 years of age. Antlers were collected from 1974-1997 from various penned-deer studies. Antlers were categorized as to number of points on the basic frame: if no brow tines were present, if only one brow tine was present, or if both brow tines were present. Data were analyzed based on the absence or presence of one or both "brow tines" and compared to antler weight (mass), body weight, antler points, antler basal circumference, antler spread, main beam length, and gross Boone and Crockett score at 1.5, 3.5, and 4.5 years of age. We examined antlers from 217 deer (N=651 sets) for which at least the first three sets of antlers were available and 168 deer (N=672 sets) for which at least the first four sets of antlers were available. Results showed that 90% of the bucks without brow tines at 3.5 and 4.5 years of age were spikes as yearlings. All bucks with 5 or more points as yearlings had both brow tines at maturity. All bucks without brow tines at 4.5 years of age had none when they were yearlings. All yearling bucks that had both brow tines had both brow tines at 3.5 and 4.5 years of age. In a related analysis, antler production also based on the presence or absence of brow tines within cohorts was compared.

[Patton]

Its the genetics, on our place in rocksprings a lot of the deer have right brow tines the curve in towards the top.

[rwoot]

IMO no brow tines should be culled

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/wma/wildlife_management/kerr_wma/research/brow_tines_as_a_predictor/

[bmactx67]

Yes sir. Genetics is what I've have been told by a biologist a couple of years back. We take one as our cull and have been doing so for 10yrs on the same place. We are seeing some results with longer brow tines.