July/August issue of TTH Kroll study on spikes

[aggie04]

The early stages of the South Texas Buck Capture began in the late 1980s and early 1990s with a white-tailed deer study on the Faith Ranch. This study was used to show patterns of antler growth in white-tailed deer and test the effect of climate and management on antler growth. Because of the longevity of this study, Dr. Mickey Hellickson, Dr. David Hewitt, and Dr. Fred Bryant initiated the South Texas Buck Capture Project in 1998. This project involved capturing 50-150 deer per year on each of five ranches in Webb and Kleberg Counties. The objectives of the project are to evaluate factors affecting deer antler size and refine deer aging techniques. The project now has*10 years of capture data and records from over 4,000 deer.

[Cody119]

I couldn't find any science in the Caeser Kleberg study and I can't consider those results valid unless they can prove the science they used. Until then I'll listen to the one who killed a 300+ on his ranch this year.

Do you really think he has deer this big because he does not shoot spikes. I would bet that it has more to do with great genetics, excellent feeding program and not harvesting trophies until they are fully mature.

[leasecommander]

I'll see what I can find out, but no promises, the presentation has some info, but I don't know if was the exact same as this report, the reason being is that it is an ongoing study. I don't know what the numbers were when this was published. It is interesting stuff and how opinions are so different and so intense, I just want to learn how to best manage the 4400 acres of low fenced land in Mason co, if that is even possible.

[Encinal]

Do you really think he has deer this big because he does not shoot spikes. I would bet that it has more to do with great genetics, excellent feeding program and not harvesting trophies until they are fully mature.

Ahh! But that is a two sided sword! If spikes ARE genetically inferior... I shouldn't have the trophies BORN that i do because I'm not doing a good job of management right? My spikes breed... And now are on their 11th year of respite.

The Only defense against that is to say it doesn't really matter if you shoot them or not even if they are bad... Because if it mattered as much as claimed we wouldn't have the deer we do... And that goes against the "all spikes need to die" mantra...


If it doesn't matter if you shoot them or not... Then you can see why my program works... I let them live... Identify the good ones out of the bunch with a little more age... And trim the rest... Giving me a larger percentage big deer in my adult age classes than a ranch that trims all spikes in the first year...

[AGAF]

I understand that I need to thin the doe population, but what I want to know is if this "cull" buck is capable of reproducing normal, typical bucks or will they all end up looking like him? If he is only going to produce junk, I'll take him out of the equation.

[Nova]

I would have to go back to look at specifics but as I remeber it they culled a lot of the deer at 3 1/2 that just so happened to be spikes as yearlings. So the question then becomes, why feed them?

[Cody119]

Ahh! But that is a two sided sword! If spikes ARE genetically inferior... I shouldn't have the trophies BORN that i do because I'm not doing a good job of management right? My spikes breed... And now are on their 11th year of respite.

The Only defense against that is to say it doesn't really matter if you shoot them or not even if they are bad... Because if it mattered as much as claimed we wouldn't have the deer we do... And that goes against the "all spikes need to die" mantra...


If it doesn't matter if you shoot them or not... Then you can see why my program works... I let them live... Identify the good ones out of the bunch with a little more age... And trim the rest... Giving me a larger percentage big deer in my adult age classes than a ranch that trims all spikes in the first year...

I agree you have a great deer herd and nobody can argue against the way you manage. I still would bet that only a small percentage of the spikes you let go are harvested as trophys at 7 1/2. You also have an incentive to let them go because you can sell them as management hunts at 4 1/2. Also I would bet your carrying capacity on yur ranch is at least 1 deer per 10 acres which that alone helps you have a larger percentage of mature deer.

[Encinal]

I'm just throwing this out there...

If only 2% of spikes become Big deer... (and that's waaay low in my estimation) if I have 200 buck fawns... And my average is 25% spikes... (That's 50 deer)

At 2lbs/deer/day and $300/ton protein those 50 deer eat $16400 in protein in the 3 years to 4.5

You don't even need to shoot managements for it to make sense... That ONE deer COULD pay for all of them.

[Cody119]

I'm just throwing this out there...

If only 2% of spikes become Big deer... (and that's waaay low in my estimation) if I have 200 buck fawns... And my average is 25% spikes... (That's 50 deer)

At 2lbs/deer/day and $300/ton protein those 50 deer eat $16400 in protein in the 3 years to 4.5

You don't even need to shoot managements for it to make sense... That ONE deer COULD pay for all of them.

I agree with you. If I were managing a ranch to sell trophy deer hunts I would manage it the same way you are doing it. We just don't have the resources to spend that kind of money on protein. We hunt on a 30,000 acre ranch that costs us $5000 a gun to hunt on and we are responsible for the protein feed so no we don't feed as much as we would like. The first 2 years we were on it we did not shoot any does or trophies just spikes and culls and we tried to shoot as many as we could before the rut. The next year we did not shoot trophies either but concentrated on culls and doe to get the buck/doe ratio back in check. We have one hunter about every 1000 acres and each year there are several trophies killed with the biggest to date scoring 192. We would love to be able to have a protein feeder every 400-500 acres but with only 30 hunters this would cost us a fortune. So we figure the more culls we remove the less mouths we have to feed.