Which Thompson Center Barrel to get ??

[ranchdog]

Looking to get a 308 Win and 223 barrel for my Stainless Thompson Center ProHunter ML gun.

Any reason why I should not go with the 28" Fluted Stainless versus the 26" Encore or 24" with sights? The 308 Win is for me, the 223 will be for the kids to shoot with me training them. I really don't see a need for the heavy barrel they sell.

I am planning to go with the TC brand as I am not looking for maximum high end barrel just something to kill a few short range deer / hogs with. I will be putting a scope on both barrels.

Thanks, Ranchdog

[StiknEat]

My cousin has the 308 fluted in Pro hunter and he loves it. I have a 7-08 fluted in the Prohunter and there is no kick at all. Both of them are very accurate.

[H-D]

I have the 25-06 Pro Hunter fluted barrel and have no complaints what so ever

[oneforthewall]

Keep the 223 barrel short and light so weight is closer to the kids center of gravity. It will be easier for them to handle.

[ranchdog]

Keep the 223 barrel short and light so weight is closer to the kids center of gravity. It will be easier for them to handle.

Good point to think about, thanks

[Mike D]

I read a very interesting article from Mike Bellm as well as a few other gun blogs lately regarding accuracy and long vs. short barrels. The results are somewhat surprising. I'll see if I can dig it up and post it. It's basically dispelling the myth of the longer barrels being more accurate than shorter barrels. My take is if you don't need the longer barrel to get complete powder burn, why bother with the added weight and slower handling?

I personally would look at an aftermarket barrel like Match Grade Machine. They are comparably priced to factory barrels and you can build it to your specifications in regards to length, profile (taper), twist rate, etc...

Also I recently read another article by Bellm stating that MGM had the truest barrels in relation to runout from breech to muzzle of any of the barrel manufacturers out there.

s a longer barrel length really the sign of a "pro hunter"? The test recently performed by David White casts a very serious dark cloud on the longer barrels, which intuitively after 31 years of barrel work I already knew about. However, David has graphically demonstrated that longer is NOT better!

Let me start this very important Newsletter with a brief statement first off that various events that have occurred since the first of the year have resulted in a total separation between myself and Bellm TCs, INC, the corporation.

There will be a more formal, refined disclosure for those wanting an explanation, but suffice it to say for now that I am no longer connected with the corporation in any way and that my son, Kurt "Little Mike" and his wife will be conducting the parts business on my site, www.bellmtcs.com

as usual.

I regard the work I have done on your behalf as a public trust, one that was seriously undermined by the corporation, and respectfully ask for your continued support of me, Mike Bellm, my ongoing work on your behalf, and my family members now on board with me. More on this later.

That said, give this a serious read!

T/C Pro Hunter test:
A couple weeks ago, I performed a single test of 5 different T/C Pro Hunter rifles that literally cut their group size in half. Before I tell you what I did, here is a list of the guns/calibers used in this seemingly simple test...

All guns had the 28" fluted Pro Hunter barrel...

All guns had Mike Bellms oversize hinge pin, heavy duty locking bolt spring and 51 lb. hammer spring...

All guns had trigger jobs with the triggers being set from 2 1/2 to 3 lbs...

All guns were shooting factory ammo...

All guns were checked before testing to make sure all mounts were tight...

Here is a list of each caliber used in the test, along with the ammo and group size before/after. I will also point out that there were 2 3-shot groups fired from the bench at 100 yards before the test and 2 3-shot groups fired after the test with the average group size listed for a ruler reading of group size measured center to center...

1) 22-250 / 55 gr. Federal Premium / before - 1 3/4" / after - 3/4"...

2) 25/06 / 117 gr. Hornady Spire Point / before - 2" / after - 1"...

3) 7mm Rem. Mag. / 140 gr. Nosler Partition / before - 2 1/2" / after - 7/8"...

4) 308 / 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt / before - 1 1/2" / after - 3/4"...

5) 300 Win. Mag. / 180 gr. Ballistic Silver Tip / before - 2" / after - 1"...

Okay, what was the ONLY thing to these guns to cut their group size in half? I cut 5" off the barrel and recrowned the muzzle! Well, that may actually be two things but, it stands to reason that if you cut a barrel back, it automatically gets recrowned...

So why did these guns start shooting more like what they were suppose to with a 23" barrel instead of a 28" barrel? Excessive "whip" and "vibration" as well as a total change in "harmonics"...

Here is a simple test that you can do and one that I have shown many customers. Remove your barrel from the frame and put the barrel lug in a vice and lock it down good and tight. Put a lead pencil in the muzzle end of the barrel. The wood is soft and will NOT damage the rifling or crown. Make sure the fit is good and tight. Now take a piece of paper and anchor it in front of the barrel and to where it comes in contact with the pencil. Now, with just your thumb and index finger, see just how much you can "flex" the barrel. You can very easily move the barrel 1/2" in all directions and depending on the pressure applied, it is easy to make a circle over 1" in diameter just from the barrel having so much give to it...

I have put these barrels in a lathe and run the lathe at 1,000 rpm and have shown customers how easy these barrels flex and bend with just finger tip pressure. What do you think these same overly long barrels do when a round is fired down the bore? They flex pretty much the same way but, too fast for the eye to see it. A shorter barrel though, will still flex but, to a lesser degree...

These Encore barrels also have what is referred to as a "step taper" and this too is a big cause of barrel flex. This is why that, when I build a barrel by barrel stubbing, I only use barrels that have a "straight taper" as this is what can be referred to as a self supporting structure. It does NOT whip around or flex like what the step tapered barrels do and with the vibrations lessened and harmonics dampened, accuracy potential of the barrel goes way up...

Will cutting 5" off of every barrel automatically make your barrel a better shooter? I cannot say 100% that it will but, I have yet to see one that it did not help at least to a certain degree and some more than others...

Let me also point out that something else that was noticed was "loose" spots in the bore. With all 5 of the rifles tested, when running a jag with a tight fitting patch down the bore, there was at least one if not two loose spots in the bore, with the first one usually at the 23 to 24" mark and then the secone one at around 27". I cannot say for sure but, I believe this is why these barrels shot much better because of the elemination of these loose spots. This is something that you cannot "fix" in these long barrels and the only way to deal with it is to live with it being like it is or cut it off, recrown and go from there...

Velocity loss from going from a 28" barrel down to 23"? I did get to shoot the 25-06 and 308 over the chronograph and total velocity loss for both was less than 60 fps.. I was expecting more but, and this is only my opinion, I feel the oversize bore closer to the muzzle end of the barrel was the culprit. If the bore was uniform from end to end or the muzzle end of the bore had a slight constriction to it, I would have expected a greater velocity loss. The 25-06 really suprised me as this cartridge performs admirably in a long barrel and shows it's true velocity potential. Not so in the last couple of Encore barrels I tested...

It's things like this that show the p-poor quality and design standards of T/C. It's no wonder Mike Bellm and I have so much gray hair....

DAVID WHITE

Note by Mike Bellm:
My take on the longer barrels is that it just lets you plow a deeper furrow when you cannot place a shot at the longer ranges you bought the 28" barrel for!

[TxTechBowhunter]

I'd go 24" on the 223. Keeps it short and light for the kids. 28" on the 308.

I'm sure you know this but T/C has a $50 mail in rebate on barrels until May 31st. I've bought all my barrels from www.eabco.com.

[ranchdog]

Good reading Mike D.

Thanks, Ranchdog

[LaSouthpaw]

I got the same email that mike posted and it was an interesting read. My current encore rifle is set up with a 17" fluted full bull in 260 built by match grade machine. It makes a handy little rifle. The only change I would make would have been to get a heavy barrel instead of the full bull.
Match Grade Machine has several 308 encore rifle barrels in stock as per their website.

http://www.matchgrademachine.com/gunshop/home.php?cat=323

[ranchdog]

Thanks LaSouthpaw.
Who else make quality barrels similar priced as the TC factory barrels. I really have no need for a $500 barrel. But I am open to not going with a 28" TC barrel if I loose group size.

[Mike D]

Thanks LaSouthpaw.
Who else make quality barrels similar priced as the TC factory barrels. I really have no need for a $500 barrel. But I am open to not going with a 28" TC barrel if I loose group size.

Here's my advice.

On the .308, get a MGM 20" stainless Schilen blank on a heavy factory contour.

On the .223 I would just get a 20" blued on a heavy factory contour unless you plan on keeping it after the kids "outgrow" it. Stainless Schilen blank will only add $50.

Those will make short handy rifles and will perform beautifully in each caliber.

Unless you start adding options like fluting and muzzle brakes and such, either of these can be had for well under $500. Check your PM.