Need help ,on Dog training choke collar???

[Bank Stalker]

I have a great dog. The only thing I can think of he does wrong is when I put him on a leash , or even with the harness on{though to a lesser extent} he acts like a sled dog ,, and Im the sled.
He is well behaved as far as coming to me when in the front yard off the leash, and riding in truck,,, but I would like to take him walking & I know he would like more walking. But its a workout now.
Dont know much about those choke or spike collars ,, but this dog is almost like a son to me & dont want to hurt him, hes about 70# and when he pulls , you can feel it. He starts choking too, from the collar.

any advice?

[BrianL]

IF you told your son to do something repeatedly, and he didn't do it, what would you do?

There is a difference in hurting a dog and firmly correcting an action. I really don't like choke collars because my dogs seem to think the collar is doing the correcting more than I am. You can do the same thing with a regular collar, just do a firm/sudden pull on the lead, bring him all the way to your side while saying heal. Make him ssit there till YOU are ready to move. Repeat till he stays by your side as you walk. After 3-4 times when he starts to move too far the verbal "heal" should bring him back to your side. He will learn the only way he will get to move is by your side.

[Bank Stalker]

I dont have a problem discipling him, I do whack his butt when needed.
Ive tried your method,, and I wasnt doing it correctly , or he didnt understand or something. I will give it another shot though ,thanks

[Insman]

IF you told your son to do something repeatedly, and he didn't do it, what would you do?

There is a difference in hurting a dog and firmly correcting an action. I really don't like choke collars because my dogs seem to think the collar is doing the correcting more than I am. You can do the same thing with a regular collar, just do a firm/sudden pull on the lead, bring him all the way to your side while saying heal. Make him ssit there till YOU are ready to move. Repeat till he stays by your side as you walk. After 3-4 times when he starts to move too far the verbal "heal" should bring him back to your side. He will learn the only way he will get to move is by your side.

When you give the command "heal"...command it. This way he/she knows your intentions. I feel your pain. I have a GSP and it took twice as long for him to adhere to the command "heal" as it did to teach him anything else. I completely agree with BrianL.

[BrianL]

Also, if more than one person walks him on a lead, everyone needs to do it the same way. BAsed on what you said about your dog, you are doing alot right. Don't be hard too on him, just firm. It may take a little longer, but it will work. I did the exact same thing with my son's boxer last weekend. SHe, the boxer, would take my DIL for a walk every day. If that hard head dog can learn it, I'm sure yours will as well. I may take you an 30 minutes to go 40 yards, but stick with it.

[simmentalover]

Choke collar is the one that can actually kill the dog if he gets it hung in a fence...a Pinch collar is what my trainer uses...It only takes a few short quick snaps on the leash for even the hardest headed dog to quit trying to pull you around. The Pinch collar must be put on properly, needs to be tight enough to "bite" when pulled on. It makes leash training feel like you finally have power stearing. They figure out how to now resist and the collar will quit pinching.

Kelly

[Bullrdr82]

I use a choke chain on my lab. If she starts to pull, one quick jerk back and she is back at my side. She might do this four or five times during the walk, but she is still young. Every time we go out (which I admit is not enough) she gets better.

I have a pinch collar and have used it in the past. My lab responds better to the choke chain. I also have a thick leather lease that I use. The loop end (where your hand grabs) stays free at all times. I wrap the middle around my hand. I keep the tag end free to pop her hind end when she does not do right. She is hard headed at times, so I have got her good a couple times because she just would not listen.

[Bank Stalker]

Choke collar is the one that can actually kill the dog if he gets it hung in a fence...a Pinch collar is what my trainer uses...It only takes a few short quick snaps on the leash for even the hardest headed dog to quit trying to pull you around. The Pinch collar must be put on properly, needs to be tight enough to "bite" when pulled on. It makes leash training feel like you finally have power stearing. They figure out how to now resist and the collar will quit pinching.

Kelly

Pinch collar , thats the name , that what people have suggested before. I may get one , I almost did before , but when I went to the pet shop to buy one , they told me horror stories about them. But I believe I can use it in a appropriate manner,, I bet the people who hurt their dogs with them ,,, didnt love their dog.
another thanks to you

[Bill]

Dogs do not understand an equal relationship, you need to establish yourself in the alpha role- lovingly. If he's not listening and pulling, he thinks he's in charge. The best book I read on dog training was "Mother Knows Best" by Dr. Lee Benjamin. If you can find a library loan it is worth reading. Along with the alpha role, comes listening when you tell him something- once. I have always had chokers on my goldens, but that was more so it did not make a big imprint on all the beautiful fur around their necks.

[Convert]

I used a pinch collar for behavior work after positive methods didn't work. They have their place. But that place is not in teaching a dog to stop pulling against a leash. Letting a dog pull against a choke chain or pinch collar is asking for a damaged trachea. The point of those collars is to give immediate and precise corrections, a leash pop and then a release of the tension for a specific behavior, not to actually choke the dog. And BrianL is right, that can be done with a flat collar. The reason I used a pinch is because my dog was aggressively reactive to point of not caring what I did until I introduced that intense of an aversive.

Try teaching a heel or loose leash walk before using a corrective collar. This video uses clicker training, but you can use "Yes!" as a marker word with the treat instead: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ"]YouTube- How to train your dog not to pull- Loose Leash Walking[/ame]. This is basically the way I trained Sadie to walk with me, rewarding the behavior I wanted. Once she understood what I wanted and would do it consistently, I continued to intermittently reward and used a leash pop as a correction if she pulled. But I only incorporated that punishment after she knew what was expected of her. I think it's inefficient and not really fair to start with corrections when the dog doesn't know what they should be doing. In my opinion, you get more mileage out of a punishment when the dog knows what you want, and the best way to teach a dog what you want is to reward that behavior.

Also, if you do buy a pinch or choke collar, take your dog with you to have it properly fitted. You'll have a mess on your hands if you don't get precisely the right size for your dog. Here's another video explaining some of the basics: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICX07zLMWAo"]YouTube- Dog Training Collars & Harnesses : Fitting a Prong Dog Collar[/ame]

[k9trainer]

Choke chains can damage the trachea but you are wrong about the prong collar, they don't correct the same as a choke

[axisbuck24]

Choke chains can damage the trachea but you are wrong about the prong collar, they don't correct the same as a choke

So are you saying a pinch/prong collar is acceptable? I am having the same issue of her pulling on the lead.

There are two issue I need to know how to correct:
1. My dog gets very excited when I go to put the lease on her. How do I correct this issue. When she is so excited it makes it difficult to put the lease on her collar.

2. She whines a lot, especially if she is tied up and out of my reach. How should I correct her? How do I break her of the whinning?

[txfireguy2003]

I know a trainer who works with German Shepards....trains everything from service (seeing eye dog type) dogs, to police attack dogs. He uses the pinch collars, as do I. He showed me a study done in Germany that took 100 working dogs, all German Shepards, all military or police dogs, VERY high drive animals. In the study, 50 dogs got standard choke chains, and 50 got the pinch collars. After many years, and the dogs had died naturally, they did autopsies on each one. The ones with the standard choke collars had IIRC a 30% incidence of trachea injury, but the ones with the pinch collars only had something like 2% incidence. The reason for this is because the standard choke collar gets tighter and tighter the harder you pull, while the pinch collar is self limiting, it can only get so tight. Also, I'm told that the pinch collar simulates another dog biting your dog's neck, as in a submission hold, and the dog responds to this by stopping his bad behavior. Do what you will with this information, but I choose to train with a pinch collar, once the dog is trained, you can switch back to a standard nylon or leather strap collar and only go to the pinch collar when refresher training is needed.

[d1rich1]

For another option I've had a lot of success w a Halti for my 2 german shepherds. It controls the face similar to what you would use on a horse. I had the same problem as you but when my dogs wear them I can easily walk them both at the same time because they can't pull against me at all because it turns their whole head around. They work really well and have helped me alot in training them to the point to where I don't have to use even a leash if I don't want to.

[Convert]

I definitely believe pinch collars are more humane and more efficient that choke chains. But that doesn't mean you can't do damage with one. Police and protection dogs are being handled by professionals whereas we're talking about amateurs. And no matter who is using them, they still have to be used correctly to be safe. This article does a great job of outlining why a pinch collar is an effective tool, http://www.cal.net/~pamgreen/pinch_collar.html, but it also notes how it can be abused:

Pinch collars are NOT SAFE to use with strong jerks or a strong sustained pull! The same is true of slip-collars (unlimited slip) and can be true of limited-slip collars as well.

There is an obvious danger of injury from sustained hard pulling.
* If your dog continues to pull hard on a pinch collar, then the halter is the wrong tool for this dog or you are using it incorrectly, and you will have to switch to something else. Seek the advice of a trainer experienced with the strong-pulling breeds.
* Persons with disabilities who use a wheelchair should NOT ask or allow their Assistance Dog to pull the chair or anything else from the pinch collar. If you need pulling services, put a proper pulling harness on the dog and switch the leash over to the harness whenever you ask the dog to pull or snap a tow-line to the harness and continue to use the leash for directional guidance.
* Likewise those who want their dog to pull them on a skateboard or rollerskates or rollarblades or on skis or sleds. Use a tow line attached to the body harness, and use leash on collar lightly for directional guidance only. Your dog needs to be really well trained before you try to use him in these sports. The end of the tow line that attaches to your belt should attach with a quick release snap that can be released even if the line is under tension ; horse stores carry these snaps under the name "panic snap.:
* Even milder sustained pulling , any pulling or dragging that causes the collar to remain tight can cause sores or interfere with breathing. Sustained tightness is as much handler error as it is dog error. Get help from a trainer to learn better technique.
* If you need to tie your dog up , eg to lamp-post or bike-rack, while you leave the dog to go into a store, it is safer to switch the leash to the dog's flat (non-slip) collar for the duration. That avoids the risk that something will cause the dog to pull back against the pinch collar and injure himself.

A hard jerk on a pinch collar also has the potential for injury. Do NOT put your dog in a situation where he could get up speed and hit the end of the leash hard. The halter should be used only with a normal 6 foot leash during basic training. A dog is unlikely to lunge hard enough on a 6 foot lead to hurt himself. But on a longer leash, it is possible to get up quite a bit of speed by the time the dog reaches the end of the line. Ideally wait to go to the long line phase of training until the dog is well enough trained that he only needs a very mild bump as a reminder. However in using a long line to upgrade your Come training, if the dog is moving fast, you have to soften the impact when he hits the end . If you are holding the end of the line in your hand, soften the impact by moving towards the dog as he connects with the end of the line. If you are using your foot on a dragged line , get your foot onto the line when there is still several yards of line left which you can let slide through under partial pressure from your foot. If you feel your dog still needs a firm correction, go back to a 6 foot to 10 foot leash until he is better trained and ready for 30 foot long line work.

Pinch collars are NOT SAFE for dogs with some medical conditions. Do NOT use a pinch collar on any dog with any kind of tracheal or esophageal abnormality such as a tendency towards tracheal collapse or megaesophagus. Likewise a slip-collar, even limited-slip, would probably be a bad idea and even a flat non-slip collar could be a problem if the dog pulled on it (but just fine for carrying the dog's ID tags).

Do NOT leave a pinch collar or slip-collar of any kind on a dog when the dog is not under human supervision, and especially do not do so with any kind of line or leash attached. If the collar or leash were to get caught on something and especially something overhead, injury or strangling (death) might result. Although the pinch collar, being a limited slip type of collar, is somewhat less dangerous than the standard "choke chain" unlimited slip collar, it's way too much risk to take unless of course you have a dog whose behavior problems are so severe that the need to be able to take control through the attached line outweighs any risk to the dog. The main time when leaving a pinch collar and short tab leash on a dog would be worth the risk would be when dealing with a dog with aggression issues or one who tends to jump up on people vigourously (which can be more dangerous than a bite if the person falls and breaks a hip).

Do NOT use a pinch collar or any other pain-to-neck device (including especially a bark-corrector or remote shock collar) on any dog with an aggression problem. Pain tends to increase aggression. For dog-aggressive dogs, any pain in the neck can trigger the same fight response as would be triggered by being bitten in the neck by the other dog. So use of neck pain to a dog who is dog aggressive is likely to cause the dog to start a fight as a pre-emptive strike under less and less provocation from the other dog. Additionally, if a pinch collar or chain collar is on a dog who is grabbed by the neck by another dog, the grabbing dog may catch and break a tooth on it, which causes great suffering to that dog and great expense to whoever has to pay for a root-canal procedure.