Help with double bull camo patterns

[Chris]

So in other words take it down and put it up every time you use it, I don't think so!In a perfect world maybe!

[BIG D]

For example, let's say you leave your new bow out in your truck all day in hot weather and your limbs crack. Is that mathews or bowtechs fault or responsibility? Heck no. You shouldnt have left it out there all day to begin with.

But will Mathews or Bowtech replace those limbs free of charge no questions asked? Heck yes....... gosh!!!!! (in my best Nepoleon voice) I know where you are coming from, just not a good example. I can say that I have some less expensive blinds that spend 5 months a year out and have not faded a bit in 2 years........but that isnt what this thread is about.

[JW]

I'm kinda partial to "PINK" since I shoot a "BOWTECH"...

[spur]

So Double Bull's Video a year in the field is a bogus selling ploy?

I have a DB and I love it... I have left it out for months at a time. Larry a thread like this occurred about 2 months ago and the guy who responded to you, "thehairlessone!" had sold a blind to a customer and told him exactly the same thing even though he purchased it from the "Hairlessone!" The customer contacted another dealer who didn't make a dime off the sale and the blind was replaced at no charge. I think the hairlessone is pumping sunshine up your azz. JMHO... do a search and see for yourself. Carry one!

[Mike D]

If they switched fabric or printing inks, great for those buying new versions.
Before this happened, I was sure Double Bull was the best out there. Now...ehhh, not so much.

You bet your azz they did, they sold out to China just like everybody else. When the older blinds were made here in the US, you never heard of this problem, since then, I'm hearing about it a lot. I haev an older T5 that I bought used from Devin on here and it's been out for several months at a time over the past 3 years, and it still looks great. No telling how long Devin left it out before I got it. What I think is sad is that I had an el cheapo Ameristep Brickhouse that faded and they replaced the blind no questions asked. DB advertises as being the premium blind on the market, and it certainly has the price tag to go with it. But if they stop standing behind their product, they will lose a lot of customers.

For example, let's say you leave your new bow out in your truck all day in hot weather and your limbs crack. Is that mathews or bowtechs fault or responsibility? Heck no. You shouldnt have left it out there all day to begin with.

That's a bad analogy to use Rick because Bowtech or Mathews will stand behind their product.

[thehairlessone!]

The customer contacted another dealer who didn't make a dime off the sale and the blind was replaced at no charge

You are wrong on two counts. First of all, I am the one that got the blind replaced for Jeff. If you dont believe me, just ask him. He is a good friend of mine.

I think the hairlessone is pumping sunshine up your azz. JMHO..

Spur, You couldnt be more wrong. Like I said before, feel free to call Jeff (texas 10pt) or Double Bull and ask them yourself. I have nothing to hide.

But if they stop standing behind their product, they will lose a lot of customers.

Mike,
I have to disagree. Double Bull isnt reversing their position because they never said they would cover color fading. They never said the blinds were designed to be left in the field for extended periods of time. This is the same position they have always had.

I have been a dealer for about 6 yrs. and a customer for 2-3 years before that and it has always been that way. The fabric was never covered under warranty. I am sure you are wondering why right? Because no fabric will hold up if the customer doesnt take care of it. Plain and simple.

I had one customer a couple years ago who left his blind out for a month or so and it got chewed up by rats. He then contacted me and tried to act like it was double bulls fault it got chewed up.

Is it their fault he left it out and it got chewed up by rats? Heck no it isnt. I got him a piece of fabric to sew it up with but it was very hard for me to bite my tongue on that one.

There was another customer who sent in a 7 yr. old blind that was chewed up by cows and expected it to be replaced with a brand new blind. Should that be covered? Heck no. It isnt their fault he let the cows chew it up.

Bottom line. If you follow their instructions and take care of your blind it will last for many many years. If you dont, you are making a personal choice and it wont be covered.

It is up to you.

rick

[Mike D]

Rick,

I have to disagree with you. The reason I bought several DB blinds is because of their reputation on these very forums of taking care of the customer and replacing or repairing items like rats chewing holes in the fabric and such. They obviously are not obligated to do so, but there are several members here that have had that very thing taken care of. I do not however, ever recall material fade being a problem until recently. Don't you think it's awful coincidental that there seemed to be no problems with this until they sold out to China for their manufacturing? I as well as many others here have left our blinds out for moths at a time for several seasons in the past with none of the issues that are coming up now. My point being that if the fabric is not going to hold up any better than the cheaper lines of blinds, why pay the extra for them? I would rather spend $100 on a blind that I know is going to have this issue rather than 3-4 times that much and have the same issue.

All that being said, on my T2 that I'm going to get from you, do you have any of the older left over models? The fabric seems to hold up better on them.

[thehairlessone!]

Mike,
I can see where you are coming from but I am not so sure the fact that they moved production to China is the reason why. I wasnt very pleased with it at first either but I do understand that they have a business to run and that was a decision they had to make.

I believe the reason they started having them made overseas was because they simply couldnt make them fast enough here. I know they are having a heck of a timekeeping up now even though they are having more made than ever before.

Double bull does extensive testing on all the blinds and fabrics and have been doing so for quite some time. I know they are constantly trying to tweak the fabrics to make them last longer, repel water better, flap in the wind less, etc.

I never leave my blinds out for more than a few days so I have no personal experience with the fading issue.

You also have to keep in mind that the animals arent going to notice if your blind faded. They see in shades of black and white anyway so it isnt going to bother them in the least. It just doesnt look as nice to the human eye.

rick

[duck or bleed]

I have the green as well as the brown blinds. Both seem to blend in very well in a cedar rich enviornment. But as stated above, the color blends are probably more for our eyes than the deer's eyes. I like the T2 blinds because of the softer outlines that are easier to break up. I believe that's what is important for deer hunting, not the color blend. I have also not had any problems with fading even after many months of leaving the blind out, but I always set it up in the shade. The jury is still out on my new green blind, as it has not been exposed for extended periods of time. But even with a little fading, which is to be expected, there should not be an issue with hiding it fronm deer. Heck, it will just make it easier for you to find!

[eradicator]

I disagree regarding the color. The picture of the faded blind is going to be much less effective. While deer don't see in colors as humans do, it's the contrast of colors on the blind that make it effective. The ability to blend in several environments is no coincidence. As it is now, it's a general gray/bluish color without defining contrast. It will appear as a big blob of gray on the side of the hill(or wherever it is). Brushing will help, but defeats the purpose of buying a $400 blind. This is why sticks-n-limbs camo works so well.( that's not a plug, I wear it and think it works tremendously)

[Texastaxi]

DUCK ... I'm so proud of you ... you didn't even work a Bowtech plug into that incredibly informative response!

You can always go back and edit it, you know?

[Texastaxi]

I disagree regarding the color. The picture of the faded blind is going to be much less effective. While deer don't see in colors as humans do, it's the contrast of colors on the blind that make it effective. The ability to blend in several environments is no coincidence. As it is now, it's a general gray/bluish color without defining contrast. It will appear as a big blob of gray on the side of the hill(or wherever it is). Brushing will help, but defeats the purpose of buying a $400 blind. This is why sticks-n-limbs camo works so well.( that's not a plug, I wear it and think it works tremendously)

I'm going to disagree with your dissagreement!
There's someone on here that hunts out of a PINK pop-up ... and KILLS stuff out of it.






Cue pink Ameristep pictures!

[thehairlessone!]

DUCK ... I'm so proud of you ... you didn't even work a Bowtech plug into that incredibly informative response!

Here let me do that! LOL!

I just got a new guardian. I love that thing!

(but I dont have anything against your bow either!)

rick

[Larry]

My point exactly, eradicator. The blind with it's camo in the current state looks like a big huge blob sitting there. I'm not an idiot. Statements like "camo is more for the hunter than the deer" are so freakin' overbaked. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT DEER DON'T SEE COLOR! I know when something ain't right, and walking up to that blind makes me want to kick it in the brush and walk away. You don't spend that much for something of that "quality" and have it fade like that. IF Double Bull saved a few bucks each to have fabric printed overseas, then they have plenty of bucks saved up to replace blinds that aren't holding up to the standards they have set. You don't go around touting your product as the best there is without expecting someone to hold you to that statement.

Hairless, I agree with parts of your posts. I'm a realistic person. I don't expect any company to replace something that's been abused or misused. I don't feel that I have abused or misused this blind. Again...BS5 in same camo pattern used in the same manner for over two years did not fade a bit. They can't change their manufacturing process and expect to not be held accountable for a drop in quality. We have signage and billboards all around the speedway. I'm very familiar with the effects of UV light and know what inks and colors fade first if inferior inks and colors are used. We have artwork that goes south from time to time WELL before it should, and that artwork is replaced no questions asked. Yellow goes first if it's not the proper UV ink/color. That is exactly what has happened to this blind. I removed the yellow from the CMYK version of the image above, and it looks exactly like my blind.

On another note, I can't keep this blind standing. It is probably just an issue with the support ties/ropes. I tried adjusting the ties/ropes to no avail. I can barely touch a hub from the outside, and the side caves in. Who knows. I've asked around and have learned that it's a common practice for Matrix users to stuff something down in the sleeve to effectively lengthen the rods. Give me a break. People stuffing the sleeves to keep a $400 blind from having the sides/hubs pop in?!

Then there's the whole diagonal door thingie. Do they let any big boys test getting in and out of that thing? Good grief, I have to get on all fours and crawl through the opening, if you want to call it that. It never zips up and blocks out light all the way, either.

The Matrix is a great idea. Hopefully they get feedback from users that aren't just blowing smoke in hopes of getting a hat or something in return. Hopefully there will be future generations of this blind that will greatly improve some of the issues I have and have seen and heard others comment on.

By the way, like Duck said above...this blind was placed under a very low hanging, very mature, very large oak. It wasn't left in the open. It basically faded under indirect light. It also had at least one side collapsed every time I walked up to it.

[Texastaxi]

... IF Double Bull saved a few bucks each to have fabric printed overseas, then they have plenty of bucks saved up to replace blinds that aren't holding up to the standards they have set. .

...They can't change their manufacturing process and expect to not be held accountable for a drop in quality....

If they're not producing the same "made in America" quality that they did in the begining, they could at least let the price reflect it! Seems to me like the ole bait and switch routine!