Paris Pro-Am Roll Call! Who's going?

[Arrowsmith]

I know you guys, my wife doesn't. It is totally my fault, that I did not ask any questions. My mind heard the lady say they watch them while their parents are shooting and I took that for face value and didn't get the full details.

I wasn't scared, maybe just a little embarrassed that people had to step in and do my job for me. My wife on the other hand was not a happy camper at all. She hears names but doesn't know faces or people personally.

GA thinks the world of Pistol and you guys. I really appreciate you guys going above and beyond.

It sounds like Tracey and Stacey had everything under control and were following ASA procedure. ASA Pro/Ams are the most family friendly events that you will find anywhere. At many shoots we will have 3 generations of shooters competing.

I think the guy that won bow novice had never shot a 3D tourney before. I talked to him and his running buddy for a while Sunday am and he was a happy camper.

That is amazing !!! To win a Pro/Am in Bow Novice....or any other class is amazing.

I feel Bow Novice is a very important entry level class in ASA competition.
There are move up rules in place at the state and national level to move shooters up when they excel in Bow Novice.

I shot the hunter class. Half known, half unknown out to 40 yards with fixed pins. I had to use my my grandsons sight off his youth bow it's the only fixed pin sight I own. I had 2 pins 27 and 35. I shot ok. I just do it for fun and giggles anyway. Mparks a TBHer shot together in the same group and had a blast.
ProV I hope y'all come back and both shoot again.

We are glad you had a good time.

Word....hunter is pretty competitive. Judging is where the $ is at. Thats why there are no known pro classes. You learn to judge you can beat shooters better than you cause most just practice shooting. ...just my 2 cents

In any unknown classes good judging is the key.

[Dusty Britches]

I know you guys, my wife doesn't. It is totally my fault, that I did not ask any questions. My mind heard the lady say they watch them while their parents are shooting and I took that for face value and didn't get the full details.

I wasn't scared, maybe just a little embarrassed that people had to step in and do my job for me. My wife on the other hand was not a happy camper at all. She hears names but doesn't know faces or people personally.

GA thinks the world of Pistol and you guys. I really appreciate you guys going above and beyond.

I see. I misread your post and became defensive, rather than trying to see what you were really saying. I hope you can make more of these big shoots with both of your kids. We really do watch out for each other.

[mparks]

It sounds like Tracey and Stacey had everything under control and were following ASA procedure. ASA Pro/Ams are the most family friendly events that you will find anywhere. At many shoots we will have 3 generations of shooters competing.




That is amazing !!! To win a Pro/Am in Bow Novice....or any other class is amazing.

I feel Bow Novice is a very important entry level class in ASA competition.
There are move up rules in place at the state and national level to move shooters up when they excel in Bow Novice.



We are glad you had a good time.



In any unknown classes good judging is the key.

I need to improve

[ProV1]

I think the guy that won bow novice had never shot a 3D tourney before. I talked to him and his running buddy for a while Sunday am and he was a happy camper.

Was not his first tournament. I ran his ASA# he has been shooting Bow Novice for two years and shooting very well the whole time. The man who came in second has been in bow novice for 4 years and has multiple second place finishes in pro/am competition.

I ran a lot more numbers and no matter what the ASA says about moving folks up, it appears to be a ringer class when you look at past results and how long some people have been shooting in the class.

Moving to hunter next year, I will be even less competitive but at least I will know what I am walking into instead of getting blindsided in what I thought was a beginner class.

Not trying to burn the ASA, I think it is a great org. But like any competitive body it obviously has issues. Too bad it would be almost impossible to develop a handicap system for classes.

[The Greek]

First leg of road trip starts tonight....

Presley is this weekend?im thinking to go

[MA ELite]

Was not his first tournament. I ran his ASA# he has been shooting Bow Novice for two years and shooting very well the whole time. The man who came in second has been in bow novice for 4 years and has multiple second place finishes in pro/am competition.



I ran a lot more numbers and no matter what the ASA says about moving folks up, it appears to be a ringer class when you look at past results and how long some people have been shooting in the class.



Moving to hunter next year, I will be even less competitive but at least I will know what I am walking into instead of getting blindsided in what I thought was a beginner class.



Not trying to burn the ASA, I think it is a great org. But like any competitive body it obviously has issues. Too bad it would be almost impossible to develop a handicap system for classes.

Guy in my group said he has been shooting BN for 3 years.

I thought the rule was 2 years then you must move up. ASA range official told me no it is only based off of money won.

[Arrowsmith]

Was not his first tournament. I ran his ASA# he has been shooting Bow Novice for two years and shooting very well the whole time. The man who came in second has been in bow novice for 4 years and has multiple second place finishes in pro/am competition.

I ran a lot more numbers and no matter what the ASA says about moving folks up, it appears to be a ringer class when you look at past results and how long some people have been shooting in the class.

Moving to hunter next year, I will be even less competitive but at least I will know what I am walking into instead of getting blindsided in what I thought was a beginner class.

Not trying to burn the ASA, I think it is a great org. But like any competitive body it obviously has issues. Too bad it would be almost impossible to develop a handicap system for classes.

I am not sure what you can glean by "running numbers". The years a shooter is in Bow Novice means nothing unless you win $300.00 during a Pro/Am season. A shooter can stay in Bow Novice for the rest of his life if he does not win over $300.00 in a tournament season. The second that a shooter wins one cent over $300.00 (at the national level...Pro/Am events) during a tournament season they are IMMEDIATELY moved up.....no ifs ands or buts about it. It has been done this way since the inception of the class. No one gets around it. No one slips thru the cracks and there are NO issues with the ASA system. I am tired of shooters not knowing the rules then coming on here bashing ASA because THEY don't take time to read and understand the ASA national level and state level rules.

Here is the Pro/Am tour rules on move up out of Bow Novice:
Bow Novice –
Release, fixed pins no magnification 30 yards, 280 FPS, Known Distance
This class is reserved for participants who shoot in the novice pins class at the state level, or that won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition. At any point during the season that a competitor in this class earns more than $300.00 they are required to compete in a higher class.

Please click here for the most recent ASA Pro/Am Tour move up list:

http://forum.asaarchery.com/forum/main/general-archery/179-move-up-list-2014-updated-after-tuscaloosa-al

You can find the current Bow Novice and Open C move up list a few days after each ASA Pro/Am.

At the state level (Texas ASA Federation) events we move shooters out of Bow Novice and Open C by the following rules:

Shooters will move up immediately if they:
Win 2 qualifiers with 10 or more shooters in their class
Or
Have 3 top three finishes with 10 or more shooters in their class
Or
Win the State Championship

This rule is listed on the Texas ASA Federation website.

We (Texas ASA Federation) have moved two shooters out of Bow Novice this year.

If any of you would like to see our Texas ASA Federation Move up list as of 4-29-14 please send me your email address and I will send you the excel file. I don't know how to attach an excel file to this post but I will gladly email you the current and past move up lists.

Guy in my group said he has been shooting BN for 3 years.

I thought the rule was 2 years then you must move up. ASA range official told me no it is only based off of money won.

The ASA range official is 100% correct. If would be difficult to use the Pro/Am $300.00 rule at the state level as no one would ever win that much. We adopted a performance driven rule here in Texas as described in the rules I listed above. At one time Oklahoma used the two year rule you mentioned above.

[MA ELite]

I am not sure what you can glean by "running numbers". The years a shooter is in Bow Novice means nothing unless you win $300.00 during a Pro/Am season. A shooter can stay in Bow Novice for the rest of his life if he does not win over $300.00 in a tournament season. The second that a shooter wins one cent over $300.00 (at the national level...Pro/Am events) during a tournament season they are IMMEDIATELY moved up.....no ifs ands or buts about it. It has been done this way since the inception of the class. No one gets around it. No one slips thru the cracks and there are NO issues with the ASA system. I am tired of shooters not knowing the rules then coming on here bashing ASA because THEY don't take time to read and understand the ASA national level and state level rules.



Here is the Pro/Am tour rules on move up out of Bow Novice:

Bow Novice –

Release, fixed pins no magnification 30 yards, 280 FPS, Known Distance

This class is reserved for participants who shoot in the novice pins class at the state level, or that won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition. At any point during the season that a competitor in this class earns more than $300.00 they are required to compete in a higher class.



Please click here for the most recent ASA Pro/Am Tour move up list:

http://forum.asaarchery.com/forum/main/general-archery/179-move-up-list-2014-updated-after-tuscaloosa-al

You can find the current Bow Novice and Open C move up list a few days after each ASA Pro/Am.



At the state level (Texas ASA Federation) events we move shooters out of Bow Novice and Open C by the following rules:



Shooters will move up immediately if they:

Win 2 qualifiers with 10 or more shooters in their class

Or

Have 3 top three finishes with 10 or more shooters in their class

Or

Win the State Championship



This rule is listed on the Texas ASA Federation website.



We (Texas ASA Federation) have moved two shooters out of Bow Novice this year.



If any of you would like to see our Texas ASA Federation Move up list as of 4-29-14 please send me your email address and I will send you the excel file. I don't know how to attach an excel file to this post but I will gladly email you the current and past move up lists.







The ASA range official is 100% correct. If would be difficult to use the Pro/Am $300.00 rule at the state level as no one would ever win that much. We adopted a performance driven rule here in Texas as described in the rules I listed above. At one time Oklahoma used the two year rule you mentioned above.

I knew I saw the 2 year rule somewhere. Didn't mean to cause trouble, just figured all states and ASA events were the same.

[ProV1]

First. I was not bashing the ASA. I even said this, I think it is a wonderful experience for my daughter, who LOVES it.

Second. I have read the rules.

Third obviously it is an Issue. How can you have a novice class that has shooters in it that are obviously not novices. I heard multiple people complain about it in Paris. If it was just me, then it would not be an issue. It would be me blowing wind. I even got cornered by a guy walking back from range J and my answer to him was it is what it is.

I mean I am not the smartest tool in the shed, I only have two degrees which is by no means any measure of intelligence. But when the word novice is used and your a starting competitive archer, do you not think that it is a reasonable assumption that you will be shooting against other novices. Multiple years of competition and multiple top 5 Pro/Am finishes does not equate to the dictionary definition of a novice by any stretch of the imagination.

As a guy entering state and national competition so I could compete with my daughter, Bow Novice from the sound of it was a perfect starting point, for hopefully a life long journey. Like I said I am moving to hunter after state, so my year as a novice will be over. Like I said earlier I have enjoyed Bow Novice at the state level, at the Pro/Am level not so much.

The best that could come of this is for someone like you, Mike, to understand the frustrations being a true novice. It maybe so far back in your mind that you can't remember being a beginner, but there is a steep enough learning curve without having to deal with people who obviously are there to milk the system. You seem like a decent enough fellow, you have a voice with the national organization perhaps you could address these issues with them.

As it stands right now, if any new archer or new to competitive archer came to me and asked about ASA, the first thing I would tell them is to skip Bow Novice and start somewhere else. As a matter of fact I was told this at the beginning of this season and did not take the advice, should have listened.

I am not going to ramble on more about this, my last post on the subject. It is what it is, with softball and vacations my next stop if we can make it is State. Hopefully I'll see y'all there.

[Brett C]

Well said Mike !

[Arrowsmith]

First. I was not bashing the ASA. I even said this, I think it is a wonderful experience for my daughter, who LOVES it.

Second. I have read the rules.

Third obviously it is an Issue. How can you have a novice class that has shooters in it that are obviously not novices. I heard multiple people complain about it in Paris. If it was just me, then it would not be an issue. It would be me blowing wind. I even got cornered by a guy walking back from range J and my answer to him was it is what it is.

I mean I am not the smartest tool in the shed, I only have two degrees which is by no means any measure of intelligence. But when the word novice is used and your a starting competitive archer, do you not think that it is a reasonable assumption that you will be shooting against other novices. Multiple years of competition and multiple top 5 Pro/Am finishes does not equate to the dictionary definition of a novice by any stretch of the imagination.

As a guy entering state and national competition so I could compete with my daughter, Bow Novice from the sound of it was a perfect starting point, for hopefully a life long journey. Like I said I am moving to hunter after state, so my year as a novice will be over. Like I said earlier I have enjoyed Bow Novice at the state level, at the Pro/Am level not so much.

The best that could come of this is for someone like you, Mike, to understand the frustrations being a true novice. It maybe so far back in your mind that you can't remember being a beginner, but there is a steep enough learning curve without having to deal with people who obviously are there to milk the system. You seem like a decent enough fellow, you have a voice with the national organization perhaps you could address these issues with them.

As it stands right now, if any new archer or new to competitive archer came to me and asked about ASA, the first thing I would tell them is to skip Bow Novice and start somewhere else. As a matter of fact I was told this at the beginning of this season and did not take the advice, should have listened.

I am not going to ramble on more about this, my last post on the subject. It is what it is, with softball and vacations my next stop if we can make it is State. Hopefully I'll see y'all there.

First let me say this.....You and your daughter are very important to us. Both of you are part of our Texas ASA family. We want you both to have fun and enjoy shooting.

The Bow Novice class has gone thru many changes over the years. Most of these changes at the request of the shooters. BN used to be all unknown distance 260 fps. The shooters asked ASA to raise the speed limit to 280 as 260 was just so slow for newer bows. ASA raised the speed limit to 280.

Then the ASA changed BN was to 1/2 known and 1/2 unknown distance, 280 fps when all classes (except Pro) shot 1/2 and 1/2.

Then ASA changed BN to all known distance a couple of years ago.

The move up rules at the national level have always been the same. We have tweaked the move up rule at the state level to make it fair and equitable.

The only thing that I take exception to is when people say ASA does not move shooters out of BN and Open C. Tracy and I have been state directors going on nine years and we have this discussion every year. When shooters meet the national move up requirements they are moved up. When shooters meet our Texas ASA requirements they are moved up.

I would always recommend that a shooter stay in a lower class until you are required to move or until you are totally comfortable with a move up. You will always enjoy your shooting more when you are in your comfort zone.

Just to let you know we all experience the same things. I was a little embarrassed this weekend also. I had a really good round going Saturday and then I yanked one left for a 5 and ended up at 195. Sunday, on my third target, my sight light went out at full draw. When I started to let down my hand position was wrong and I misfired for a zero. I followed that up with another 5. Three bad shots our of 40 = 23rd place finish. I tell you this so you will know we all struggle with this game we love. Keep after it, have fun and keep bringing your little girl. I know she loves shooting and we love having both of you shooting with us.

[BrianL]

I think maybe another class between BN and hunter would be great. Now the step up is a rather large jump.

[Pistol]

I don't think another class is a good idea- it cuts down the payouts, that's why the women make so little for a win, there is hardly anyone in a class anymore. It's not worth going anymore, to be the only one in my class competing. I think the men's open a has had the same problem from time to time.

[D C]

My suggestion on the novice subject. Go to every state qualifier and club shoot you can and learn a lot there before you think you can compete at a national level. I've always looked at competing like this, "if you can't beat the local guys, don't go out of town expecting to win."

More classes is not the answer.

[BrianL]

My suggestion on the novice subject. Go to every state qualifier and club shoot you can and learn a lot there before you think you can compete at a national level. I've always looked at competing like this, "if you can't beat the local guys, don't go out of town expecting to win."

More classes is not the answer.

It is a local shoot for me. I've only shoot 3 in my life and two are the ASA. I don't go in expecting to win. If I have to shoot 30-40 up, I won't, and based on the scores I'm guessing close to 80% shouldn't be expecting to either. It's just for fun. Most of the novice are just that, but having a 30 yard or less known/unknown distance would be a blast for us. No plans on winning that one either. I think more people(especially locals) would shoot, but the 40 yard unknown is a BIG jump from 30 yard known. If you are shooting novice for the payout, outside of top 3(approx$200), there isn't much $. If you are traveling to win $200, your still loosing $, so you better be having fun.

I AM NOT COMPLAINING!!!!!!!!! I am fine if it stays the way it is. Just a thought.

Did they renew the contract for Paris?