Backdoor Open carry passed???

[tvc184]

So, if said officer suffers from little man or big ego...you likely get arrested.

Or believes the witness.

[Chad C]

I would not go as far as "can't get in trouble".

Remember than an arrest is officer's discretion if he believes that you violated the law and has at least probable cause (in his opinion). Probable cause basically means that it is more than 50% likely.

What happens when you are shopping and grandma sees your handgun exposed? When the officer responds, she "claims" that it was intentional? You looked right at her and leaned over and intentionally showed your handgun when your shirt came up. Now the officer has a person that is ready to testify that you violated the law and the officer takes her statement and arrests you. Of course you will likely say that you were reaching for something on the bottom shelf at the store and your shirt came up and it was accidental.

It comes down to your word against hers. I can almost guarantee that in my county, the charges will be dropped by the DA (and no grand jury for misdemeanors) and the charges will end within a day or so after the arrest when the case is submitted for review. Unless it has changed, in some large counties like Harris County, they will get the DA on the phone and make a decision right there at the scene. If not you can have your day in court and your lawyer will probably have an easy time of convincing a jury that is was all an accident (which is why the DA will likely drop charges quickly).

None of that guarantees that you will not "get in trouble". You might get "out of trouble" but exposure still might make trouble come your way. Hopefully officers responding to such situations will do nothing or at least not make an arrest and only file a report and let the DA review it and make a determination, hopefully in the CHL holder's favor.

In most cases from any type of crime that is what I tell my officers. When in doubt, do not make an arrest and write it up and let the DA make a decision. If the case if that iffy, it will likely end up in no charges filed anyway.

So, if said officer suffers from little man or big ego...you likely get arrested.

[LostHawg]

...shall not be infringed.

[flatlander]

it will most definitely be up to LEO discretion, but expect to be disarmed. this is meant to keep you from having to worry about printing or accidental exposure. "intent" of the law will be placed into the record for judicial review once a case is brought before the courts, and the state congress will be on record as meaning such with this one.

This is what came to my mind. Probably trying to protect the accidental 'display' if it falls out of your pants from carry gangsta' style.

I'd hate to have to argue the point in court the way it is written now, all it takes is one person to freak out,....

[tvc184]

This just clarifies the accidental exposure clause. Makes it clear that as long as you aren't intentionally showing off your holstered pistol you can't get in trouble.

Keep in mind that exposure can still lead to you being asked to leave the premises by someone in management.

I would not go as far as "can't get in trouble".

Remember than an arrest is officer's discretion if he believes that you violated the law and has at least probable cause (in his opinion). Probable cause basically means that it is more than 50% likely.

What happens when you are shopping and grandma sees your handgun exposed? When the officer responds, she "claims" that it was intentional? You looked right at her and leaned over and intentionally showed your handgun when your shirt came up. Now the officer has a person that is ready to testify that you violated the law and the officer takes her statement and arrests you. Of course you will likely say that you were reaching for something on the bottom shelf at the store and your shirt came up and it was accidental.

It comes down to your word against hers. I can almost guarantee that in my county, the charges will be dropped by the DA (and no grand jury for misdemeanors) and the charges will end within a day or so after the arrest when the case is submitted for review. Unless it has changed, in some large counties like Harris County, they will get the DA on the phone and make a decision right there at the scene. If not you can have your day in court and your lawyer will probably have an easy time of convincing a jury that is was all an accident (which is why the DA will likely drop charges quickly).

None of that guarantees that you will not "get in trouble". You might get "out of trouble" but exposure still might make trouble come your way. Hopefully officers responding to such situations will do nothing or at least not make an arrest and only file a report and let the DA review it and make a determination, hopefully in the CHL holder's favor.

In most cases from any type of crime that is what I tell my officers. When in doubt, do not make an arrest and write it up and let the DA make a decision. If the case if that iffy, it will likely end up in no charges filed anyway.

[rossivey]

Open Carry is dead for this session. It can be taken up again in 2015.

Accidental exposure is not illegal under current law. Changing a couple of words appears to make the law easier for some people to understand. It still will not stop someone from calling the police. Hopefully it be easier for the responding officer to understand the law and will keep an officer from making an unlawful arrest.

I hope so

[tvc184]

I guess I'm an idiot, cause I don't understand lol. Is this concerning open carry, or the fact that open carry is not gonna happen? And is the answer that now no one better see your gun or trouble?

Ahhh I think I get it accidental exposure is ok.

Open Carry is dead for this session. It can be taken up again in 2015.

Accidental exposure is not illegal under current law. Changing a couple of words appears to make the law easier for some people to understand. It still will not stop someone from calling the police. Hopefully it be easier for the responding officer to understand the law and will keep an officer from making an unlawful arrest.

[tvc184]

I just read this and it certainly looks as if ....HAHHAH draw your own conclusions..Craig Estes is SNEAKY!!

SB299 is on the way to the Governors Desk. Here is the key provision:

SB299 was the original open carry bill. It did not get enough traction in both houses in its original/submitted form. This original Senate bill did have the term "in a manner calculated to alarm".

HB1304 is the bill that only changes the term "intentionally fails to conceal" to "intentionally displays". This more or less clarifies the law for those officers and citizens that can't understand culpable mental states. Apparently "displays" is easier to understand then "fails to conceal". You can read the original bill as submitted to the House and it makes no mention of the manner "calculated to alarm" and it shows no amendments.

The original SB299 was changed to almost match HB1304.

This is what the new law will say if the governor signs it. The underlined parts are the new words added to the current law and the yellow highlighted was struck from the current law. It effectively ends open carry for this session.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally displays [fails to conceal] the handgun in plain
view of another person in a public place.

[rossivey]

This just clarifies the accidental exposure clause. Makes it clear that as long as you aren't intentionally showing off your holstered pistol you can't get in trouble.

Keep in mind that exposure can still lead to you being asked to leave the premises by someone in management.

Yep

[Dave]

This just clarifies the accidental exposure clause. Makes it clear that as long as you aren't intentionally showing off your holstered pistol you can't get in trouble.

Keep in mind that exposure can still lead to you being asked to leave the premises by someone in management.

[az2tx]

So what if you are carrying and someone flips out and draws a ridiculous amount of attention to you? It would seem to me that it is more or less the cop's call. Am I wrong on thinking that?

only if they flip out when they see the cops holstered weapon too, if not then they didn't flip out because of the weapon

FYI I personally don't see what the issue is with open carry, I lived in Arizona for years and open carry is legal there. See someone with a gun and not even pay attention, kind of like someone is wearing a hat or something

[rossivey]

Me, neither. All that mumbo jumbo needs to be simplified!

Accidental exposure? I thought that is already a law for that where it states that an accidental exposure is ok as long it was an accidental not on purpose?? That's from my understanding and also that on one's property, showing a gun on side is perfectly legal. I understand that out in the public is different. What's the point for that bill to be brought up in first place if we already have similar law?

I think it's just wording.

[Silent Assassin]

I guess I'm an idiot, cause I don't understand lol. Is this concerning open carry, or the fact that open carry is not gonna happen? And is the answer that now no one better see your gun or trouble?

Me, neither. All that mumbo jumbo needs to be simplified!

Accidental exposure? I thought that is already a law for that where it states that an accidental exposure is ok as long it was an accidental not on purpose?? That's from my understanding and also that on one's property, showing a gun on side is perfectly legal. I understand that out in the public is different. What's the point for that bill to be brought up in first place if we already have similar law?

[rossivey]

Ahhh I think I get it accidental exposure is ok.

Yes sir

[oneoffcustom]

Ahhh I think I get it accidental exposure is ok.