Protein vs Genetics

[Hogmauler]

Totally insane!

[Chase This!]

Wow. Pics?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hogmauler]

Wow. Pics?

[Chase This!]

age

Not by itself. I have a 250” 2 year old.

[Johnson]

age

[Hogmauler]

Will check out that video!

[slayer]

I was in Haskell county for 5 years. When we got there, the average deer was a 115" 8 pt., lots of them. By the last year we were there, we had more than a handful of 13, 12's and 10's. The mass had grown, the inches had grown. The deer in my area would wait on me to fill the feeder. Literally standing 15-20 yards away while I poured bags in. . .Protein, Cotton Seed, supplements, mineral blocks. water and AGE. You can effect low fence deer heard, if all participants are on board. In Knox county, we have fed protein 24/7/365 for 10 years. The average weight of a buck is now close to 200lbs. Average doe is closer to 135-150 lbs. We have at least 6 sets of twin fawn this year. If I could get the farmers to let me put in food plots instead of wheat or oats, I think we could get even more out of the deer. When we started 10 years ago, there was little to no heard. Average buck is maybe 110" if that. We now get 125-130" 2 year olds. Not all of them, but more on average then before. We can't control our neighbors, therefore I can't control genetics other than cull out deer that don't meet the standards. . .each will believe their own train of thought. I have seen the difference directly and will continue to throw money at it. . . besides, its only money. . ..

[elgato]

Lots of interesting comments here. For me the priorities are very simple

1) Nutrition!!!!! Nutrition raises the quality of all age classes.Peak Nutrition shifts the bell curve of a herd over time measurably. I suspect there are very few places anywhere that a deer herd is on peak nutrition year round for generations without supplementation. We feed protein year round.

2) Age- Age is always your friend. He who can say exactly what year a deer will have his best rack hasn't been born yet. But conclusively the several years of peak maturity offer the best window to peak antler expression

3) Genetics-The genetic potential in many ( most? ) places is sufficient to meet the goals of most hunters. The limiter is almost always nutrition, then age. And with year round peak nutrition, as stating in study after study on deer, humans and everything else, quality improves as a response to an improved environment

[kyle1974]

I agree %100.
Every post you have on this thread is correct in my opinion about the subject.
Thanks for posting.

In my opinion what people think they’re seeing with protein improving genetics on low fence ground could just be the difference of managing what’s killed better compared to past managers.
I like to believe in protein doing good things when you have genetics. I believe in that situation it works.

I would say this year, the amount of feed that we put out saved some deer from dying in the drought. Of course we hope that antler development follows, but this being one of the worst droughts in the area's history, there's no doubt that the feeding took pressure off the browse and kept a few deer alive.

[elgato]

So if a buck is a mainframe 8 he’ll always be a mainframe 8 but a healthier version on protein with the possibility of more mass

You might find this video interesting regarding antler growth and the idea 'once an 8 always an 8'

https://youtu.be/v2BUx4xhWjI

[slayer]

Did I read this correctly? You are feeding protein to get more meat out of your deer?

Bigger bodies, healthier deer. They survive and recover faster from the rut and yes, side affect, I get more meat when I kill one. . .

[PoppinPiggies]

Wow. So they never came back?

Nope and if they did the grasshoppers got them the next year. So far we have found they don't seem to like live oak leaves... definitely interesting in trying the Bifen stuff mentioned above though

[hog_down]

How many of y’all have planted fast growing fruit trees for deer? If so where did you find the trees. I checked a couple places and they seemed to be “out of stock” the couple times I checked back. And out of state as well.

I planted Mexican plum, escarpment cherry, white oak, lacey oak, chinkapin oak, and Monterrey oak at my place in the Hill Country. Check your local nurseries first, then reach out further if you need to.

Online stores:

https://www.nativnurseries.com/

https://whitetailhillchestnuts.com/c...gaAnPDEALw_wcB

https://www.wildtree.co/shop/

Get a soil sample and send it off to see what the pH is, and what minerals you are lacking, and that way you can determine what to plant. Also, need to figure out a way to water the trees or they will die, especially in a drought. Ask around and see what other trees are native to your area. For example: don't plant a chestnut tree in west Texas, it ain't going to live.

And yes, the grasshoppers almost wiped my trees out too, I had to spray Bifen to keep them away.

[jshouse]

There’s articles that even dispute that J House. I had a spike come by me last week that looked like a really young deer. His spikes were six inches long. I let him walk thinking I’d give him a year.
I’d like the biologist to chime in here regarding antler growth to age. Perfect example: the six inch spike that walked by me. Will he fork next year?

i partly say it in jest. i know there are studies that show spikes can turn in to nice deer, but if i am looking to skim mouths or fill the freezer and i can choose between a spike and a 6pt thats the same age, i would take the spike based on percentages.

that being said, i hunt small low fence places and we dont shoot anything unless its going on the wall so every young deer gets a pass from me.

we use protein, sweet feed, rice bran, applce corn, whatever we can get them to eat to try to keep them on our side of the fence as much as possible. sometimes it works and sometimes our neighbor kills bigazz 4yo deer 3 years in a row.

[Hogmauler]

Wow. So they never came back?