Changes for our timber company lease

[Russ79]

The timber company that I lease from is looking to collectively put a number of their tracts that are in the same area into the state MLD management program. This means they are requiring us to do either a camera or spotlight survey. Since I have never done either before I could use some advice for those that have done this before. I am thinking, that since I live close to the lease and not sure when any of our members can be available for a spotlight survey, I figure a camera survey is the way to go. For those that have done this before, do you set up bait stations away from your feeders or use your feeders as part of the survey? I figure to get this started in about three weeks so I am looking for any advice I can get.

[AntlerCollector]

Make it up. It’s all a guess anyway.

[Txhunter3000]

This^^^^^^. Deer move around.

[TURKYKLLR]

Cameras every 160 acres on a grid pattern away from feeders. Place 50lbs of corn in a pile in front of each camera and set the delay to every 3-5 minutes in between pictures and run for 10 days. Rebait on 5th day of survey. Once the ten days are up pull cards and you can figure out your deer density via searching on TPWD website, they have a pdf document that explains the math. Link is attached. Don’t make up the data, the timber company will know and will not end well for y’all

[Bayouboy]

Make it up. It’s all a guess anyway.

This right here. The lease I just got off of lied through their teeth! Sounds like some TT&G crapola and Richard Capps. Neither survey is worth a darn. On camera you get the same deer over and over. Wait until they want the jaw bones and tell you to slaughter the does. If it is TT&G they will tell you it is a coop. Beware.

[Txhunter3000]

Cameras every 160 acres on a grid pattern away from feeders. Place 50lbs of corn in a pile in front of each camera and set the delay to every 3-5 minutes in between pictures and run for 10 days. Rebait on 5th day of survey. Once the ten days are up pull cards and you can figure out your deer density via searching on TPWD website, they have a pdf document that explains the math. Link is attached. Don’t make up the data, the timber company will know and will not end well for y’all

I hope there aren't any hogs on the place. 50 # piles of corn = a hog frenzy on my place. The hogs will clean up the corn every night and the deer wouldn't get any.

[Drycreek3189]

Make it up. It’s all a guess anyway.

I lean this way. They have a formula, but the formula came out of someone’s head. The camera survey is the reason I quit the MLD program, they wanted me to kill five does a year on a 217 acre place. I never did, the most we ever took was three after the first year. After they went to the new program, they would have given me one doe permit on the exact same place. So ……….WTH ?

[Twist]

I’d just ask the locals. They probably do enough spotlighting of their own out there with it being timber company land, or that was our experience anyway when we hunted such places 20+ years ago.

Seriously though. It’s almost guaranteed to be low fence, if fenced at all and as mentioned above, deer move around. You’re most likely not going to get any kind of an accurate idea as to what holds on the property most of the time.

[sqiggy]

Seems to me, if the timber company is wanting to go that route, they should do it. Personally, I wouldn’t want to go to MLD in east Texas.

[cehorn]

I hope there aren't any hogs on the place. 50 # piles of corn = a hog frenzy on my place. The hogs will clean up the corn every night and the deer wouldn't get any.

This has been my worry, especially if you aren't there every day like the pdf says. If I put out 50 lbs of corn on a Sunday before I leave it will likely be gone by Monday morning with pigs and then I wouldn't be back until Friday at the earliest. Doesn't seem practical. In turn, the last time I did a survey I put a camera at every feeder and counted the deer for 10-14 days counting individual bucks and total does seen (largest group).

For those that read the attached pdf, can you explain the population estimate multiplier? From the example you count the number of bucks including repeat visitors and then the number of individual bucks to create a ratio. Is that correct? It seems like one buck that shows up 10 times a day could really throw this out of wack. Am I understanding what they are saying correctly?

[Snowflake Killa]

What AC said

[TURKYKLLR]

You count the unique individual bucks that you get on camera and then use that number compared to total number of buck pictures for the multiplier for does and fawns. You will have bucks visit bait site numerous times in a day and ones that don’t so the multiplier works its self out. I will say that this method will drastically under estimate your fawn population due to fawns typically staying away from bait piles when they are this young. Based on numerous scientific research and papers it shows that this method does a good job at estimating population of adult deer. Like all population estimate methods nothing is perfect but one of the best methods we have.

[Russ79]

Thanks for all the input. TURKYKLLR, appreciate the info. Bayouboy, the email I got from Richard Capps said not doing it jeopardizes us keeping the lease so I figure I have no choice- I have another lease that is private property so I wouldn't not have a place to hunt but don't want to leave my members hanging out to dry. Txhunter3000, that is my fear if I just pile corn up outside the feeder pens I will get nothing but pig pictures. I was told to not worry about the fact that you will count the same deer more than once (especially does that are hard to differentiate)- they have a formula that "accounts" for that. If I am going to have to do this I don't know any better than trying to do it as correctly as I can. Since I live just 7 miles from the lease so I can go out there every day if I need to in order to check the bait stations. My biggest fear is that when it is all said and done, I end up with less buck permits than I have members.

[Bayouboy]

Capps is a timber company nazi. One day I can fill you in on a lot of his shenanigans. If he is talking he is lying. He will make up bs and sling it just to see if it sticks. He will also throw it out there that if you don't like it others are waiting in line and will pay the price. I have a letter drawn up and will soon be going to the head honcho of TT&G about his tactics. Hopefully it helps.

[Russ79]

Bayouboy, I have been dealing with Richard Capps for about 15 years now. I tried to caution him about was going on at one of their leases I was on and was told to be careful about what I said on public forums about some things because there are "special" provisions for certain folks leasing from them. Turns out that last year that very lease was listed up for bid- found out that tract was finally pulled from the guy that was leasing. I guess it took awhile before they got tired of this guy pocketing so much money leased property. That was a good lease and I really wanted to bid on it but the time was short to get the money in and I didn't think I could get enough hunters rounded up fast enough to make it happen.